Stainless Pin Tumbling "too clean"?

[bushmotornv]

I've been using an ultrasonic cleaner to get my cases "really" clean. The drawback is,as mentioned,sticking. When sizing the case,seating bullets,and when feeding from a magazine. My solution is to tumble in corncob media. It polishes the case which smooths up the surface. I've noticed no difference in my SD,ES numbers either way however.

 

[SteelBanger]

I've been using an ultrasonic cleaner to get my cases "really" clean. The drawback is,as mentioned,sticking. When sizing the case,seating bullets,and when feeding from a magazine. My solution is to tumble in corncob media. It polishes the case which smooths up the surface. I've noticed no difference in my SD,ES numbers either way however.

Are you saying your solution was to switch to only corn cob tumbling or you're now doing that after you sonic clean them. The idea of dry tumbling after SS wet tumbling is intriguing to me and might just be worth trying even though I dread the extra work involved with wet SS tumbling.

 

[mrmax]

Hard to argue with someone of your proven experience.
However I will tell you you are wrong about walnut media.
For 50 years both my father and I only used the media. No polish was ever added and it worked flawlessly. Beautiful shinny outsides but we had dirty primer pockets and carbon in the necks and case, which is why I now own a sonic.
But we never added polish.
I am going to try dirty brass for a while. I have been using HBN in the necks and on the bullets. But that is another topic. Thank you for your input.

Its that carbon that makes the difference when it builds up inside the case , it goes some where when its fired .. down the barrel ...

 

[GREATSCOTT!]

Thank you for the info! So far it looks like I will be switching to stainless pin tumbling.
Any more info anyone?
Thanks, Larry

Larry, Ive only used pins from STM. Not because I think they're better but because ive never had to try other's from issues with theirs. I know there are companies that make them as well, but these have never stuck in primer holes or necks with everything from .223 to .338. Good luck mate!

 

[cynjon]

I switched to the Southern Shine chip-style media...the pins that came with my Frankford Arsenal tumbler were a pain, always getting stuck crossways in case mouths (particulary .30 cal cases) and the short ones would get stuck sideways in the primer pockets. I absolutely love the SS chips, and I don't' notice nearly as much "peening" of the case mouth compared to pins for whatever reason.

 

[25WSM]

The carbon in your case is not building up layer upon layer. It is like a supressor for high power rifles. The pressure is enough to burn most of the carbon away every shot. There is always carbon going down your barrel. All your burnt powder is carbon and it almost all goes down your barrel. When I shot 1 and 2 hundred yard benchrest we didn't clean cases. I used the same 15 brass all day. Loading them 5 or more times each in a day. All I did was wipe them off after sizing them and brush the neck and hit the primer pocket with a cutter one twist. When I started shooting 1000 yard matches is when I really started to learn reloading. Matches are won on the loading bench. I'm friends with most of the top shooters at our club. Most leave the carbon in the neck and add more lube in the neck. You can put it in by dipping the neck and wiping the outside off. Done that. You can put it in with a qtip. Done that. Or you can lube your bullets. Done that. When I started I only brushed necks and didn't clean and shot many 5 inch groups and a bunch of 99s. Never got that 100 yet. But then I tried cleaning and lubing and my world of 5 inch groups disappeared. So back to not cleaning and no lube on bullets and leaving carbon in necks and I'm back to shooting 5 inches again. My best was 3.9 for 10 shots in a match. I've done 5 shot groups in evening practice less than 2 inches. All with dirty inside brass. When I cleaned my brass I didn't put 2 and 2 together fast enough and chased my tail thinking it was my scope of rifle or bullets. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks. I had started stainless pin tumbling. Beautiful brass and just garbage groups. Never ever again. Besides annealed brass is pretty. I like the colors you get why clean it all off. Lapua doesn't and it's the best brass in the world.
Shep

 

[25WSM]

I hope I learned my lesson that if something starts to go wonkey look back at any changes you made before you go chasing something that probably isn't broke. I look for quantifiable data for every change I make. Everything I do now is a results driven test. Change one thing see the results. It is better or it isn't. Clean brass may work for you. I positively did not for me.
Shep

 

[archer441]

The carbon in your case is not building up layer upon layer. It is like a supressor for high power rifles. The pressure is enough to burn most of the carbon away every shot. There is always carbon going down your barrel. All your burnt powder is carbon and it almost all goes down your barrel. When I shot 1 and 2 hundred yard benchrest we didn't clean cases. I used the same 15 brass all day. Loading them 5 or more times each in a day. All I did was wipe them off after sizing them and brush the neck and hit the primer pocket with a cutter one twist. When I started shooting 1000 yard matches is when I really started to learn reloading. Matches are won on the loading bench. I'm friends with most of the top shooters at our club. Most leave the carbon in the neck and add more lube in the neck. You can put it in by dipping the neck and wiping the outside off. Done that. You can put it in with a qtip. Done that. Or you can lube your bullets. Done that. When I started I only brushed necks and didn't clean and shot many 5 inch groups and a bunch of 99s. Never got that 100 yet. But then I tried cleaning and lubing and my world of 5 inch groups disappeared. So back to not cleaning and no lube on bullets and leaving carbon in necks and I'm back to shooting 5 inches again. My best was 3.9 for 10 shots in a match. I've done 5 shot groups in evening practice less than 2 inches. All with dirty inside brass. When I cleaned my brass I didn't put 2 and 2 together fast enough and chased my tail thinking it was my scope of rifle or bullets. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks. I had started stainless pin tumbling. Beautiful brass and just garbage groups. Never ever again. Besides annealed brass is pretty. I like the colors you get why clean it all off. Lapua doesn't and it's the best brass in the world.
Shep

Shep,
Thank you, this is the type of real world experience I was hoping for.
After reading about your experiences and looking at posts of alex wheeler as pointed out by someone else, I'll stick to walnut husk.
Larry

 

[25WSM]

I only mentioned Alex because he said he never removes the carbon in the neck either. He knows way more than me in 1000 yard. But I'm catching up.
Shep

 

[338 dude]

Although I do not reload ammo to the precision of most on here, I have used stainless pins for handgun and .223 rounds extensively for years. What I am currently doing is cleaning in a Frankfort tumbler with pins and target brand dish soap (citrus scent), then rinse off the brass and throw it in a regular tumbler with walnut media and a little auto wax to dry the brass. I only run it for a couple of hours, but the media dries the brass and leaves enough coating to keep it clean and non-sticky.

This is very close to what I do I use the Frankford arsenal Tumblr with stainless steel pins tumble change out water tumble again for a few minutes when they come out I use a heat gun to dry them but then they go into a vibratory Tumblr with walnut hull media and a little white diamond metal polish for two hours they come out shiny they won't tarnish pretty much the same method as stated above

 

[338 dude]

I wish that guys would stop trying to deny that cold welding exist. Just because you have not had it happen or did not recognize it does not mean that it does not happen. It in fact does and I have experienced it many times in the last 51 years I have been reloading. I wonder how often a stray shot or one out of the group that is that annoying flyer is in fact a cold welded case and bullet.
Yes 60K psi of pressure can break a cold weld easily but it will have a different point of impact.

There are lots of conditions that cause it and so it is hard to put your finger on. The worse case is where not all the cases and bullets are cold welded the same. As Oldtime experienced. A good way to test is to seat your last years loads a little deeper and if you have a pop or noticed resistance to moving the bullet then you have cold weld.

If you are shooting ammo that has been loaded for a while and get erratic performance then check for cold weld by trying to seat the bullets a couple thou deeper and then test again.
When I started Moly coating bullets my cold welding stopped. There are so many variables to cause this condition. Brass composition, type of bullet jacket, type of lube in neck, environment the ammo is stored in, How long in storage. What happens to the lube in the neck if organic it can turn into gunk or glue with time in hot or humid environment. I could go on and on but you get the picture.

Now I do not use Moly as much as I used to, not sure why, got lazy I guess. Moly does not make a bullet more accurate nor faster, it does allow longer strings before cleaning and it does keep the barrel cooler during long strings both of which are good things and oh yea it also prevents cold welding.

I coat all my bullets for about the last year with Molly using the wet method it is very simple and does not take much time and it's not very messy if you have your process down but often times I don't mention it many people do not like it it does not work for them but it works for me and like you I don't have any problem with cold weld but I do not load rounds and let them sit for very long either as you said it does keep the barrel cool they do not travel faster your bullets will actually slow down due to less back pressure but it will drastically extend the life of your barrel these are just My observations

 

[Huntz]

So does cold welding occur with new factory ammo?New cases could not get much cleaner as they are tumbled before loading.

 

[sedancowboy]

So does cold welding occur with new factory ammo?New cases could not get much cleaner as they are tumbled before loading.

I don't have a lot of experience with factory ammo, I have been reloading for 51 years. I will say that most factory ammo is crimped and I would imagine that a crimp will make the cold welding not as noticeable. We don't know what they tumble the brass in or the bullets in, most Manufactures don't revel all their secrets. I have seen it in some old ammo my Dad had that was old Remington Cor-Loc I believe was 20 or so years old. It was 30-06 180 gr RN.

 

[bushmotornv]

Are you saying your solution was to switch to only corn cob tumbling or you're now doing that after you sonic clean them. The idea of dry tumbling after SS wet tumbling is intriguing to me and might just be worth trying even though I dread the extra work involved with wet SS tumbling.

I clean in the ultrasonic to remove the carbon inside the case. Then,once it is dry,I run it through the corncob for a final polish. The polished cases feed better from the magazine. It is interesting to note that some necks(inside) come completely clean,and some don't. I'm thinking it's due to the powder used in that particular load. Having the necks completely clean is no different than loading a new case,but you have the benefit of a fireformed case.