Short barrel 1000 yard elk cartridge

[Send it 284]

What powder you running in your 16" saum

RL26
I hit pressure at 3012 and backed off to 2960.
7 loads on the test brass so far and great accuracy.

Reason being is unless you're shooting out past 600 yards it's hard to spot your own shots with that recoil, and in all honesty when I shot that deer 1220 yards this year the first shot I missed right in front of his chest because I didn't call enough wind and even at 1200 yards with this Ackley improved shooting 300g bullets I barely got back on target in time to see the impact; if it was less than 900 yards I probably wouldn't have got on target fast enough and wouldn't have seen where I hit, and wouldn't have been able to make a follow up shot. Ive thought about a 375 CT but the problem is when you shoot those heavy 350 400 grain bullets spotting your own shots becomes difficult. I think it's important in a hunting situation to have a caliber that you can manage to spot any misses or less than desirable hits on an animal so you can follow up smartly. Please no comments on how this is unethical because what you don't hear on Long Range Forum's, is all the missed shots which WILL happen when you're in the game of longrange hunting unfortunately. If you train and practice then you can buy down the probability of missing but the factor will always be there.

Nothing wrong with being honest, anyone attacking someone for missing at long range or making a bad hit needs to reflect on how often that happens within 200 yards.
Off hand shots are way more sketchy than a trained shooter at 1k from a solid platform

 

[dougm]

I have a 338 lapua imp with a 20 inch barrel in a bolt action pistol. 300 gr bergers running around 2650-2700. That said i think a 338 norma mag will work better, being designed for shorter barrels. I think 20-22 inch, w 22 being most ideal. Research the cartridge and i think you will be impressed.

 

[seidersjoden]

Just do the 338 Lapua, since you're already set up for it and use 250gr bullets. I doubt you'd see a huge difference in performance between the 300gr and 250gr bullets inside of 1000 yards. You'll probably be around 2800+ from a 20" barrel. Pick a good 250gr class bullet and go for it.

If you weren't trying to squeeze it into your existing chassis, I'd say something off the CT case. I do love my 20" 338 SnipeTac specialty pistol, 300gr bullets at 2890 fps in a short, compact (not light!) package.

You probably won't get 2800+ from a 20 inch barrel with a 250 I'm guessing 2600 but either way I completely agree with the set up as you mentioned. A little bit less recoil with 250 vs the 300, it'll be a short barrel hammer.
Another question I know it's a pistol but curious and getting in getting a snipetac myself in a rifle, do you know who chambers that the US?

 

[seidersjoden]

RL26
I hit pressure at 3012 and backed off to 2960.
7 loads on the test brass so far and great accuracy.

Nothing wrong with being honest, anyone attacking someone for missing at long range or making a bad hit needs to reflect on how often that happens within 200 yards.
Off hand shots are way more sketchy than a trained shooter at 1k from a solid platform

Agreed, we probably have the same experience but those that claim long range hunting is not ethical they also don't shoot more than a box a year and are just as, if not more ineffective at shorter rages.

 

[seidersjoden]

I ran a 20" .338 RUM barrel for a bit. It started as 26" but I wanted a short barrel to run the suppressor I have. The original load with H1000 sent a 300 grain Berger at 2800 fps. After cutting down the barrel it was more like 2600. At the altitude I have hunted elk I had set my range limit at 1000 yards, there it about hit the 1800 fps minimum I didn't want to exceed.

That's a good velocity considering it's a RUM. Out of my standard Lapua, 20" barrel, 300 grain berger, I was getting 2455 ft./s

 

[seidersjoden]

20" 300 RUM with 230's MV is 2825 fps
18" 338 AX (Lapua Improved) 300 grain Bullets is just under 2700 fps.
18" 7mm Dakota with 175 grain ELDX is 2900 fps.

I might cut my 338 AX barrel from 24 down to 22 or 20 after a couple years of use. I'm comfortable with getting 2950-ish velocity out of my 24 inch barrel and 300g bullets. I don't mind going down a bit and velocity but I also don't mind the 24 inch barrel and the folding stock it's pretty handy. Literally at the range right now doing some low development with solids...

 

[freddiej]

I have a few suggestions I did not see in the list I wondered through.
#1, fast twist (1:8") 338 Win Mag use 300 grain slugs.

#2, Same fast twist barrel for a 338-300 Win Mag for a bit more powder capacity and maybe a little bit better velocity out of the 18" to 20" barrel.

The most practical is below

#3, 18" to 20" rifle chambered in a 325 WSM, shoot the 220 grain slugs. This would be a short stubby magnum case that makes 80% to 95% burn from a 24" barrel with most powders and would not suffer much from an 18 to 20" barrel. maximum FPS loss is under 200 FPS from a 18" barrel.

 

[martinakl]

I have a 24" .338 Norma mag, if you want the best elk whalloping ability, I would go .338 or larger.

If you want a repeater, this is what I would look at. A 9 twist 20" .338 Norma Mag improved, and shoot the 250 Super Bull Dozer bullets with a .410 G7 at a very realistic, maybe even conservative 2800-2900 fps. At the elevation I hunt elk, that still provides around 2400 ft-lbs at 1000 yards, you have the larger frontal area of the .338 diameter vs the 30, you have your short barrel, and you have an easy repeater.

I've been watching the thread and this is my vote.

I've been thinking about a build just like this to use with my TBAC Ultra 338. I've had it for two years now, and haven't settled on a build yet. This is the most intriguing combo I've come across.

Other considerations include the Desert Tech SRS A2 and Defensive Edge LRKM. Full length barrels but short package. Win-win, except they're both so dang heavy.

Someone smarter than me design a lightweight, bullpup rifle, so we can have our cake and eat it too?

 

[Paulstarr]

I approach it this way.

Assuming 5000 feet elevation or higher since we're talking elk.

Now what's the most efficient bullet to get there and do work. I'd pick a 230 berger. At 2750 fps you get to 1000 yards with 1850 retained velocity which is your minimum threshold.

What cartridge will get you there. I'd like to say 30 sherman max, 300wm or 30 nosler. I'm a huge fan of the 30 nosler but feel the right powder combo in a short mag variant would do the job. Really need to play around in QL.

Also, I've been researching this quite a bit and it seems 20 inches is the sweet spot. It's not much of a drop off from 22 inches but seems to really outpace an 18.

I approach it this way.

Assuming 5000 feet elevation or higher since we're talking elk.

Now what's the most efficient bullet to get there and do work. I'd pick a 230 berger. At 2750 fps you get to 1000 yards with 1850 retained velocity which is your minimum threshold.

What cartridge will get you there. I'd like to say 30 sherman max, 300wm or 30 nosler. I'm a huge fan of the 30 nosler but feel the right powder combo in a short mag variant would do the job. Really need to play around in QL.

Also, I've been researching this quite a bit and it seems 20 inches is the sweet spot. It's not much of a drop off from 22 inches but seems to really outpace an 18.

I,m confused,a 230gn bullet with a MV of 2750 at 5000 ft elevation at 1000yds is down to 1250.

 

[Swiftkill]

At some point it's not a matter of efficiency, it is physics or chemistry,,, you just can't burn enough powder to push the bullet fast enough. What do you think the muzzle flash is from? Unburnt powder. You may as well use a 308 win or 7mm 08, they are designed for short barrels and use 168 gr bullets in the 308. and whatever in 7mm mag (154?). You are going to have to calculate for drop. You SAS won't have a flat laser. They will kill elk if you place the bullet properly. You need the right tool for the job. And actually, this may actually be the job for the 6.5 Creedmoor! Finally, something useful the Creedmoor can handle!. I think a 350 Rem mag is designed for short barrels if you want a bigger diameter bullet.

Personally, I think a 24" barrel for a 300 win mag is marginal. I built mine with a 26" barrel. Shorter than 24" may as well go to a 30/06 and dare I say a 308 because you can use a shorter lighter action.

LONG RANGE... is what you make of it! At some point the shooter will have to be capable with the tools at hand.
I can shoot prairie dogs with a 223 18" bbl at 500 plus yards, but its a hell of a lot easier with my 220 swift with a 26" bbl.
===========================
At the time of its introduction the .350 Remington had a short, fat case, similar to the current crop of short magnums except that the .350 carries a belt. Its closest competitor, the .35 Whelen was still just a wildcat from a necked-up .30-06, so the .350 Rem was the most powerful .35 caliber around, and in a short cartridge that allowed the use in compact quick-handling rifles.[3] However, gun writers and shooters of the time were not yet enamored of the short-fat concept as they are today, and they preferred the older longer .35 Whelen based on the .30-06 cartridge, even though it had, at best, similar performance in short barrels.[4] Today the .350 Rem has had some improvement in acceptance, due to the shorter cartridge being able to fit in a .308 length action.[5]

Though the cartridge has great merit, it has never attained tremendous popularity. This is due in no small part to the rather vicious recoil produced when firing the cartridge from the lightweight Model 600 it was initially chambered in. The Model 673 and Model 7 so chambered are a full pound heavier at 7.5 lbs, and do better to mitigate recoil. Still, with the .30-06 Springfield being toward the upper end of what many shooters find tolerable in a 7-8 pound sporting rifle, the .350 Remington Magnum remains a bit of a niche cartridge with a small but dedicated following.

Maximum pressure for the .350 Remington is set at 53,000 CUP by SAAMI.

 

[josip89]

For people who say "if you want a short barrel better use 308 or something like that" ,I will say in the same lenght barrel 3006 will always have more energy than 308 and 300 mag will always have more energy than 3006.

 

[cdoubleu]

Some people are stuck on 338. Great caliber, but the heavy 30's are out classing it in bullet design efficiency, so it's becoming a comparison much like 308 vs 6.5Creedmoor. Yes, more initial energy, but fired at the same velocity the heavy 30's will eventually overcome the difference. I'd say 300 PRC with a 1:8 twist

 

[mdmiller]

Well guys, I just got built from VA Silent Arsenal a 338 WSM in a 21" barrel.
It's on a Savage 16FC SS.
1-9 twist
They broke in the barrel in for me with 225 Accubonds going 2760 fps with 65.7@RL17 powder.
Got 338 Nosler Win Mag fps from a barrel 3" shorter!
Was room for more powder if needed!
Just something to think about!!!

Mark

 

[Alex Wheeler]

338 Norma improved if it has to be a repeater. Anytime someone says elk and 1000yds in the same sentence, I go right to the .338s. Its more about hitting the target correctly at that distance and the 300 grain bullets do that better. They just do not get moved around as much day in day out. I shoot a lot of big 30s vs 338s on the same day. The 338 hits closer to center than the big 30s on average. Real world VS ballistic charts. I would guess you would run them around 2800 in that setup.