Shootings biggest Misconception!!

[Frank in the Laurels]

Without question it's that any rifle/bullet 100 yard performance WILL determine it's long range capabilities !! I read on here so often you can tell by looking at the size of the group at 100 yards will tell you how big the group will be at longer distances, NOTHING could be further from the truth. The average rifle shooter thinks that if a rifle bullet combination shoots a 1 in group at 100 yards that it will be 2 in at 200, 3 in at 300, 4 in at 400 and so on... I hear this all the time at local ranges. I was the range master at a groundhog match for 10 years and got a chance to see everything there is in the shooting world, made by the BEST smiths in the world with best equipment made. Lots of times new shooters would see their 100-200 yard target and see that 1/2 inch group and start thinking what it should look like at 300-400-500 etc., then when they see the actually shot groups it's either better or worse than what they thought, and to honest most of the time it's much better. The worst cartridge for this was the 6.5/284, I saw countless 6.5's that shot 1 in groups at 100 yards and about the same at 2-3-4 and even out to 500 yards, the shooters see their targets and leave the scoring table shaking their heads, they can't figure that out..I see the same thing on this site, shooters try something at 100 and then make a judgment of how it will do out further, DON't get trapped by this thinking, Nothing could be further from the truth !!

 

[FEENIX]

lightbulbYep, and the biggest factor remains the NUT behind the trigger.lightbulb

 

[J E Custom]

lightbulbYep, and the biggest factor remains the NUT behind the trigger.lightbulb

+1
In My opinion a 100 yard group Only tells you what the rifle is capable of because of the amount of human factor (error) in the group.

Beyond that, the shooter influence on accuracy is magnified by distance based on ability.

When a bullet leaves the barrel, the rifles influence ends and the shooters ability determines how well the accuracy is. If he understands all of the variables and has the skills to deal with them, The outcome will be desirable if he has an accurate rifle. If he doesn't, the best/most accurate rifle will
not make up for his inability or lack of skill.

We can guaranty the accuracy of a rifle, but no one can guaranty the ability of a shooter. A great shooter has his good days and his bad days. A great rifle doesn't, It depends on its owner to be great.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[BryanLitz]

When a group is screened at multiple ranges, it does in fact grow proportionally. The trouble with most observations is that the group fired at 100 yards is a different group, fired under different conditions than groups fired at longer ranges. Often times the gun set-up is different, apparent target size/aim point is different, and the shooters mental state is different. We agree the shooter is highly influential. On the issue of groups growing or shrinking with range, you would have to screen groups at multiple ranges to know for sure, which most people haven't done this.

Check out this discussion which contains a lot of live fire testing on this very subject:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/applied-ballistics-shoot-thru-target-challenge-144359/

-Bryan

 

[KillerBee]

Without question it's that any rifle/bullet 100 yard performance WILL determine it's long range capabilities !! I read on here so often you can tell by looking at the size of the group at 100 yards will tell you how big the group will be at longer distances, NOTHING could be further from the truth. The average rifle shooter thinks that if a rifle bullet combination shoots a 1 in group at 100 yards that it will be 2 in at 200, 3 in at 300, 4 in at 400 and so on... I hear this all the time at local ranges. I was the range master at a groundhog match for 10 years and got a chance to see everything there is in the shooting world, made by the BEST smiths in the world with best equipment made. Lots of times new shooters would see their 100-200 yard target and see that 1/2 inch group and start thinking what it should look like at 300-400-500 etc., then when they see the actually shot groups it's either better or worse than what they thought, and to honest most of the time it's much better. The worst cartridge for this was the 6.5/284, I saw countless 6.5's that shot 1 in groups at 100 yards and about the same at 2-3-4 and even out to 500 yards, the shooters see their targets and leave the scoring table shaking their heads, they can't figure that out..I see the same thing on this site, shooters try something at 100 and then make a judgment of how it will do out further, DON't get trapped by this thinking, Nothing could be further from the truth !!

Hi Frank, how did 300 Win Mag do overall at distance (over 500 yards) in your experience and from what you saw? Thanks

 

[engineer40]

If I have learned 1 thing in regards to shooting accurately, it's that I haven't learned anything in regards to shooting accurately.

Every theory that I've researched and subsequently "proved" to myself to be a truism... I later violated what I knew to be true and it had the opposite results that I expected.

I have found that now I have a plethora of things I do to shoot accurately that most often, work most of the time.

I can sum it up by using this quote, "60% of the time....... it works every time......"


That's my long winded way of saying that I believe you. Although I am not sure if it is the rule or the exception.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Aptly stated Mr. Engineer.

I cringe everytime I read a post where the poster makes book on a 100 yard lob at some range somewhere (most likely off a bench on a rest of some sort) and applies that to a distance shot. It don't work that way which is why, when I built my private range, the mandate was for at least 200 yards. 100 is fine for handguns like my 44, thats it.

My friends stop by and look down range and always say.... Where the hell is the target board and I point way down range and say ......there.

They say what about 100 yards and I say...pizz on 100 yards.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Lets have number 2 misconception....

I have my own list in my mind but I want to hear what others have to say.....

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Hi Killer Bees... To be honest .300 wm were very seldom ever seen at the matches ! The reason being recoil, during a match the average shooter usually shoots 40-60 shots....15 for score plus sighters...40 plus shots off a bench with a .300wm is not for the faint of heart by any stretch !! That being said the ones that did show up always were extremely competitive, plus their handlers were usually world class shooters from Williamsport 1000... When the wind blew those big .30 cal bullets really held their own, plus there is an abundance of awesome .308 cal bullets being made. The little guns would usually shoot 1/2-3/4 in 5 shot groups at 200 yards, it was hard for the .300's to handle that but when the ranges went to 300-400-500 and the wind blew you could see a big difference in handling the wind....most of them were in the heavy unlimited class , at 500 it was not unusual to be sub 2 inch 5 shot groups, some smaller and some bigger. If I were picking a one cartridge hunting rifle this would be it without question, great bullets available, lots of superb brass, tons of reloading info, and it's hard to beat .30 cal killing power !! Hope this helps Frank

 

[Rancid Crabtree]

I catch a lot of grief because I actually sight my rifles in at 200 for non-magnum calibers and 300 for magnums. 100 yards is strictly for load development and scope mounting/get on paper.

What I can't figure out is when I get a decent group at 300 and I'm dead on, when I go back to 100 my groups are tiny. But when I do the opposite and sight in at 100 my groups suck at 300.

 

[KillerBee]

Shooting at 100 yard targets is for kindergarteners.

200 yards is a minimum.

 

[KillerBee]

Hi Killer Bees... To be honest .300 wm were very seldom ever seen at the matches ! The reason being recoil, during a match the average shooter usually shoots 40-60 shots....15 for score plus sighters...40 plus shots off a bench with a .300wm is not for the faint of heart by any stretch !! That being said the ones that did show up always were extremely competitive, plus their handlers were usually world class shooters from Williamsport 1000... When the wind blew those big .30 cal bullets really held their own, plus there is an abundance of awesome .308 cal bullets being made. The little guns would usually shoot 1/2-3/4 in 5 shot groups at 200 yards, it was hard for the .300's to handle that but when the ranges went to 300-400-500 and the wind blew you could see a big difference in handling the wind....most of them were in the heavy unlimited class , at 500 it was not unusual to be sub 2 inch 5 shot groups, some smaller and some bigger. If I were picking a one cartridge hunting rifle this would be it without question, great bullets available, lots of superb brass, tons of reloading info, and it's hard to beat .30 cal killing power !! Hope this helps Frank

Thanks for the info Frank, it sure does. Now I am very happy that I purchased my new 300 Win Mag, I am not a range shooter or a competitor just an avid hunter. Really good to hear that the wind has minimal impact on the 30 cals, compared to smaller calibers.

Cheers!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Shooting at 100 yard targets is for kindergarteners.

200 yards is a minimum.

Not really. That is all dependent on what you are shooting. LR, certainly. Handguns no. X bows, and long bows, 100 yards is too far....

All depends on the discipline.

You shoot IDPA, you'll never shoot 100 yards. In fact I shoot indoor small bore and it's 50 feet.

There is more to shooting sports than LR, way more.

 

[Engineering101]

I have a real world example rather than talking what ifs. I took a piece of paper 5 feet long and 18 inches wide and stuck a stick on orange target circle at the top of the paper and then put the paper at 200 yards and fired 3 shots (the rifle is zeroed at 200 yards). I then backed up to 300 yards, then 400 yards and then 500 yards firing 3 shots from each distance at the orange target circle. I was doing this to verify bullet drops out of my rifle before heading out after some Montana p-dogs. The rifle used was a 223 Rem firing 53 grain VMAXs. Group sizes were as follows:

200 yards: 1.063 inches
300 yards: 1.938 inches
400 yards: 2.219 inches
500 yards: 3.906 inches

Some of these group sizes support the theory of twice as far then twice the group size and some don't. But if some don't. that indicates as was said above, "60% of the time.... it works every time."