I've been able to find LEE Collet neck sizers but am not seeing a collet die that resizes the body down to the belt. Do you have a link or is the NS the one you are referring to?
Setting up dies "properly"
- Thread starter KineKilla
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I've been able to find LEE Collet neck sizers but am not seeing a collet die that resizes the body down to the belt. Do you have a link or is the NS the one you are referring to?
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Belted cases were designed to chamber in any rifle and in dirty chambers for dangerous game hunting to assure the cartridge chambers every time. The belt was necessary to hold the head space to safe tolerances while allowing the case body to chamber in the worst conditions. Brass life meant nothing, and the cases can handle the case stretch the first time.
Every time you full size a belted case to SAMMI spec, it has to stretch this amount every time and case head separation soon follows depending on the brass and chamber size. You can do a minimum full length size with the full length sizing dies until the cartridge chambers without bumping the shoulder and increase the case life and the risk of case head separation.
For normal use, most people use the shoulder to head space on after the first firing except when hunting dangerous game where the belted case offers an extra margin of safety.
On shouldered cases, case head separation is basically the same problem but less common. Each chamber is different and sizing to fit your chamber and holding head space to a minimum will normally prevent this.
J E CUSTOM
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jimbires
Well-Known Member
here is my advice . fire brass , and neck size only until the brass gets tight to chamber . this could take a few cycles until it gets tight . when the brass is tight , that means it's fully expanded . now you can measure and set up your die for a shoulder bump . on my belted cases I try for .000 - .002 bump . if your brass is not fully expanded when you set up your die , you are bumping the shoulder on short brass . this is the same as over sizing . if I remember right your load is 62.0 gr RL22 with a 160 accubond . this load is a light load , it could take 3 or 4 firings to get your brass tight . I shoot 66.0 gr of RL22 with a 160 accubond , it takes a couple of cycles until I'm expanded . I've never used the collet body die from innovative , I haven't had the need for it yet . my thought is you'd be sizing the body down , then shooting would be expanding it , right where the case separation problem happens . this could be a bad thing if it's not needed .
The good folks at Innovative state that their die does not cause brass to flow forward like normal dies. They told me "Our die squeezes brass inward not upward so it will not add additional length." as stretching the case was also my concern.
That doesn't mean I have to have it. I'm just relaying what they told me.
I'm going to go with your approach and see what happens. Wish there was a better way to get the exact dimensions of my rifle chamber to start with and save trips to the range, bullets, primers and time. Maybe there's a business opportunity there...?
That doesn't mean I have to have it. I'm just relaying what they told me.
I'm going to go with your approach and see what happens. Wish there was a better way to get the exact dimensions of my rifle chamber to start with and save trips to the range, bullets, primers and time. Maybe there's a business opportunity there...?
jimbires
Well-Known Member
it's not brass flow I understand this , it's the squeezing of the die , then the expanding when fired . any movement will work harden the brass . this will be right at the separation area .
jimbires
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure cerosafe shrinks a thousandths or two . I read up on it a few years ago , I could be wrong on this .
Cerrosafe will shrink as it cools. In about an hour, when it reaches room temperature, it will be at the chamber's dimensions. Take photos, measurements and make a drawing for your records. Then after a week, the cast will expand to about .0025" over the chamber's measurements. If you keep the cast for reference then you have to discount that .0025" from any measurements taken after that week...……….Patience!
You can also make a cast from heated sulfur but they are brittle.
I often wonder, given todays epoxies and release agents, if it would be worthwhile to explore making chamber casts using them.
If you just need a quick look to check the chamber, we all know bore scopes work.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I use Cerrosafe mostly for Unknown chambers before I test fire them to make sure I know what cartridge the rifle is chambered in or another to find other Non SAMMI dimensions. (Many rifle have came to me without correct barrel ID}. It is a good tool for this. If the rifle has already been fired, A fired case will tell lots about the quality and size of the chamber.
When using a product like Cerrosafe it is very important to follow the instructions for best results.
It is made for this use and I don't recommend using any other product for this purpose even though they may work to avoid trouble.
J E CUSTOM
Equalizer
Well-Known Member
KineKilla it's an oversizing issue. You don't set the sizer up like the manual says. You start 3/8" or 1/4" off the shell holder. Use once fired brass (from your gun) and adjust the die down in small increments till you can just close the bolt on the case. Then set the lock ring on your sizer die.
I figured it was. It seems like brass could grow even more than it did on the first firing because I can easily rechamber a once fired case with no resistance. My plan for now is to shoot new brass once, neck size only, fire again and see what it's measurements are and set the dies to bump from there.
jimbires
Well-Known Member
shoot the brass until it gets tight to chamber . if you bump brass that is not fully expanded ,( tight to chamber ) , your over sizing the brass
