Savage 111 LRH 6.5-284 Loading Questions

[ShootnMathews]

Anyone have any load data for hodgdon superformance in 6.5x284 with 140 VLD??

Suppose to be a fast powder. May get speed up if not too much pressure.

 

[BrentM]

I started a new lot of Bergers and my COAL is 2.166 at 2.07 to the ogive. I use a Hornady OAL guage. The new lot of bullets are a tad longer in the ogive department and have a bit more bearing surface.

I also suspect with that chamber you may need to switch to 120 or 130 bullets. They are shorter and yes they have less BC. However, the BC is still pretty decent and if your rifle likes them then why not shoot them. I will likely stick with the 140's for the mountain terrain and hunting we have. Things change so drastically that I believe the higher the BC and quicker the bullet speed the better. Less flight time means less effect the elements have on it.

I don't recall if you did this, but another thought is to try .005 off the lands. Get that bullet as far out as possible and see what happens. I do suggest that you invest in a concentricity guage for ultimate accuracy. I know my bullets are not lined up consistently in the case neck after seating and the tool cleans that mess up quickly. Anyway, with 005 off you can still mag load and hunt with enough confidence the bullet will not be stuck in the chamber when extracting a cartridge. Just a thought.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Just a thought, what brass are you using? I was using Win. .243 necked up. If you are using Lapua you may be seeing these signs due to the heavier brass. and maybe a chamber that isn't quite up to specs. Just a thought. My MV was higher due to the 30" BBL. .......SEMPER FI!

Sarge
I'm guessing you're talking about making .260 Remington cases from the necked up 243 Win cases, not 6.5x284 Norma. Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

I am a little surprised it is that low. How many rounds do you have through it now? With 4831 I saw 2900 at 4100 feet and 20 degrees. I am wondering if you have a tight barrel. Also hv1000 might be a good choice if you can't find Retumbo.

Btw my 4831 load is 54 g for Berger vld target. 53 Berger hunting. 140 grain. The targets have less bearing surface and can handle more powder and speed. My vld hunting have .040 more surface area. ? Sometimes this stuff makes my head hurt. Ha ha

Brent
I'm guessing you made a typo. You probably meant Hodgdon H1000 instead of hv1000.

Which Berger Match bullet are you shooting? I know they make 3 different types of 6.5 140 grain Match bullets. I've only shot the Berger 140 gr. VLD Hunting and the Berger 140 gr. VLD Match. Berger says that those two bullets are identical except for jacket thickness. Does one of the other two match bullets have .040" less surface area? Are you shooting the Berger 140 gr. Match Boat Tail Long Range Target bullet? I've been wondering how they would shoot.

 

[BrentM]

Yes, typo. H1000

The Berger VLD's are in fact a LRBT, both the hunt and match. There are bearing surface differences lot to lot regardless of what Berger says. I have 3 lots. Each is different from the other. For example in my target lot the BS goes from .537 to .567. .030 difference in one box. The hunting VLD are .565 and .575. .010 difference in those lots but all have been the same in each box. Weight goes from 140.0 to 140.2. I have seen little affect with these difference though. Most so far have been 140 to 140.1 with a few, I think 4 total in the last box at 139.9 and 140.2.

My .537's and .567's with the same powder have different results in pressure nodes and speed on the chrono. Mainly pressure though. I have to reduce powder by 1 grain.

Do they shoot....IMO yes. I am certainly no expert but I have no problem shooting .5 MOA with this rifle and these bullets. They seem to really hold tight at longer ranges 800-1000. I have had several groups that are .5moa at those ranges and actually only 1 bullet hit weird. That was all on me though. I really think if I do my job, the bullet's will in fact be closer to .25-.35 MOA at those ranges. I am not sure I am capable of that.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

I started at 50 grains and started to work up. At 50.4 the bolt was just barely starting to get sticky. First chance I get I'm going to load some ladder charges starting at 50.6 up to 53 and see what the gun does. I don't want to have to carry a hammer to knock the bolt open with.

I would be satisfied with 2850 with the 4831. I'd like to find some Retumbo and try to get it to around 2925 or even a little higher. As much as I shoot I'll prob never burn the barrel out. I just want to flatten it out some, and hit my target.

The drop today @ 500 yards from a 200 yard zero was 48.5". My 243 with a 95 grain bullet only drops 53" with a 100 yard zero. Kinda frustrated, bummed, .....need help.... Need Retumbo I think.

The first thing I did with my new rifle was to load a series of loads to try and find the maximum load with Berger 140 VLDs and H4831SC. I loaded from 48 grains to 53 grains without reaching what I considered a maximum load. I stopped at 53 grains because that was 2 grains over the max load in the Berger Manual. The primers were flat, but no flatter than at 51 grains. As for the sticky bolt you are getting, is the bolt handle hard to lift or is it sticking when you try to pull it to the rear. I always grease the rear of the bolt lugs on all my rifles to prevent them from galling. None of the reloads I've tried have made the bolt hard to lift but when the loads reach near max the bolt gets hard to pull to the rear because the brass seems to be sticking in the chamber.

Don't be overly worried by flat primers by themselves. They seem to be a fact of life with my 6.5x284. They all look pretty flat.

I wasn't surprised by your 2591 fps at 50.2 gr. of H4831SC. At 51 gr. I only got 2706 fps and at 53 grains I only got 2838 fps. That's why I switched to IMR7828SSC and Retumbo. I wanted to reach 3000 fps. Both of these powders did that. At 3023 fps the drop on the Berger 140 gr. VLD is -34.31" Do be careful when you start loading Retumbo though. Berger's Manual says 58.5 gr. is a Maximum load and in my rifle, it is.

I think you and I are looking for the same thing out of our rifles.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Do they shoot....IMO yes. I am certainly no expert but I have no problem shooting .5 MOA with this rifle and these bullets. They seem to really hold tight at longer ranges 800-1000. I have had several groups that are .5moa at those ranges and actually only 1 bullet hit weird. That was all on me though. I really think if I do my job, the bullet's will in fact be closer to .25-.35 MOA at those ranges. I am not sure I am capable of that.

I've found the same thing to be true with most Berger VLDs. In the 6.5x284, a 300 WM and a 338 Lapua, the long bullets seem to take a while to stabilize. The 338 almost drove me crazy. I kept trying to get .5 MOA groups at 100 yards and couldn't do it. Then on a whim, I shot it at 200 yards for group size. Bingo, less than .5 MOA. So I stretched it out. The farther I shot it, the tighter the groups got. At 500 yards it's shooting 1.5" groups with the 300 gr. Berger.

The 6.5x284 acts like it will be the same. It shoots tighter at 200 yards than it does at 100 yards. That's the farthest I've shot for groups that I can measure. Broken rocks at 500+ are hard to measure.

 

[BrentM]

I have only shot 100 to get the scope on paper and then to shoot a few new loads through the chrono for fun. The 100 yard mark was convient due to the location that day. If it shoots .35 at 100 and it does it at 200 and 300 and so on. Unlike other rifles I have shot at 100 that do well, at 300 they spread out. These do the opposite. I don't even try to pattern at 100 now with VLD type bullets.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Well I got lucky and found some retumbo a bout an hour away. He's holding it for me until I get off work. $27 a pound. Not too bad. So hopefully in a few days ill have a new load worked up. Going to start at 57 grains and work up

 

[Sargesniper]

It is very possible that this is your issue. 2.94 coal could have that Berger too deep in the case and that would give high pressure since the case volume is reduced at that seating depth. You are over 1/8" shorter than a spec leade. I have seen high pressure when recoil has pushed my Berger 140 VLD's deeper into the case while they were in my magazine. See if a COAL of 3.12 makes contact with your lands. If your leade is really that short, Retumbo will get you another 50-75FPS, but it won't give you the velocity potential of the the round. You may have an out of spec chamber.

Thanks for agreeing Greyfox. I thought about his problem for some time. I couldn't find in his post where he stated what brass he uses. Hope we are right and his problem is that simple. ............. SEMPER FI!

 

[Sargesniper]

Sarge
I'm guessing you're talking about making .260 Remington cases from the necked up 243 Win cases, not 6.5x284 Norma. Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

Sorry about the confusion i should have said .284 Win. cases necked down.to 6.5x284. Hope that clears it up. .........SEMPER FI!

 

[ShootnMathews]

Ok. Think I found my problem. I don't know how, but some how I either measured wrong or wrote it down wrong but my chamber is longer. 3.23" COAL to the lans. So I've been loading them waaaaay short. This is bound to make some major difference. Again, I don't know where my screwup was but at least I found it.

Also got my Retumbo on the way home. So I have renewed hopes.

 

[Sargesniper]

Ok. Think I found my problem. I don't know how, but some how I either measured wrong or wrote it down wrong but my chamber is longer. 3.23" to the lans. So I've been loading them waaaaay short. This is bound to make some major difference. Again, I don't know where my screwup was but at least I found it.

Also got my Retumbo on the way home. So I have renewed hopes.

Thank goodness you found it. Yes you were crowding powder space. Could be the answer. Hope so. Keep us posted. .........SEMPER FI!

 

[BrentM]

Heh heh. Measure twice and cut once