Savage 111 LRH 6.5-284 Loading Questions

[Sargesniper]

Still struggling to find the answer to why the speed has anything to do with the barrel life. I had way more pressure issue's with 4350 and 4831 than I do with retumbo.

You are burning more powder than i was with with your loads regardless of the pressure signs or lack of. Speed will increase pressure,therefore increased barrel wear/heat. I hope you don't find out the hard way as i did. It may not make sense but that is the reality of it. You pay for what you get unfortunately. any way,enjoy your rifle. Besides, a barrel is an expendable item. Easily enough to replace so go shoot that rascal and keep me informed as to how it is doing. I really loved mine. Too bad it was a short love affair. Shoot bug holes as i know it will,mine did. ........SEMPER FI!

 

[BrentM]

Your point is understood about more powder can be more pressure, which equals higher speed. What I don't understand yet is how other rifles, the 260 included, push the same basic bullets at the same velocities or higher, and there are no complaints about life. Or a 7mm flinging lead at 3100-3200 with 70 grains or whatever. This is an area that seems confusing to a lot of us and we struggle to "get it". At least I do.

I read something a month back that showed were the 260's were getting similar velocities to the 6.5-284. From what I could see from the article is that the 260's were being pushed really hard to keep up wih the 284. Is it correct to assume the 284 is just going to have less barrel life simply because the case holds more powder, therefore burns more powder. The 260 will have a longer life simply for the opposite reason, independant of speed and pressure?

BTW- according to the Berger book I am on the low side of the powder amount. I am prettty sure they go up to 58.5 grains of Retumbo. Again, not sure that matters. I recall one of my books, lyman perhaps, lists pressure values per given powder amounts and types. The 6.5-284 is not in there as the book is older.

 

[Sargesniper]

Your point is understood about more powder can be more pressure, which equals higher speed. What I don't understand yet is how other rifles, the 260 included, push the same basic bullets at the same velocities or higher, and there are no complaints about life. Or a 7mm flinging lead at 3100-3200 with 70 grains or whatever. This is an area that seems confusing to a lot of us and we struggle to "get it". At least I do.

I read something a month back that showed were the 260's were getting similar velocities to the 6.5-284. From what I could see from the article is that the 260's were being pushed really hard to keep up wih the 284. Is it correct to assume the 284 is just going to have less barrel life simply because the case holds more powder, therefore burns more powder. The 260 will have a longer life simply for the opposite reason, independant of speed and pressure?

BTW- according to the Berger book I am on the low side of the powder amount. I am prettty sure they go up to 58.5 grains of Retumbo. Again, not sure that matters. I recall one of my books, lyman perhaps, lists pressure values per given powder amounts and types. The 6.5-284 is not in there as the book is older.

You are on the right track. Large powder charges burn longer in the barrel. Not a lot but enough. I read somewhere,can't remember where, that the flame temp. got up to 1700 degrees when ignited. Only for a short time. So lets assume now that a large amount will keep that temp. longer than a smaller charge will. Do you see what i mean? All these SSM and SUM cartridges suffer the same fate. You and i do not know what our pressures ACTUALLY are without some sort of pressure gage. I have no access to one as i'm sure you probably don't either. So we have to rely on what the signs show us. What i am saying is if you were to back it down to lets say 2800-2850 you may increase the life of the barrel and may be as accurate or even more. And given the fact that the 6.5x284 has a problem with that dreaded carbon thing going on,makes it all the worse. I wish i had not bought mine because now i want another one. Guess i am a glutton for punishment but i really enjoyed it's accuracy and speed. Enjoy yours for as long as you can. It is a great one! ..........SEMPER FI!

 

[BrentM]

Thanks. After this one is shot out I might go 7LRM or keep the caliber and go proof research barrel. I have a couple of years of shooting and time to work it all out. I have a friend building a 7LRM so I will get a chance to see it in action before I do anything. It is a ton of fun hitting targets that you can only really see with good glass. Rewarding.

 

[Sargesniper]

Thanks. After this one is shot out I might go 7LRM or keep the caliber and go proof research barrel. I have a couple of years of shooting and time to work it all out. I have a friend building a 7LRM so I will get a chance to see it in action before I do anything. It is a ton of fun hitting targets that you can only really see with good glass. Rewarding.

Yes BrentM: LRM would get you out to no mans land. I have a.280 Rem for hunting from years past and the 7MM bullets are good for LR. Some of the BR guys are using 7-08 for their game. they tend to lean on it hard also. Barrels mean nothing to them as they swap at least 1 a year. I should be so lucky! Speaking of Glass, what is your flavor? I have NF NXS & BR. I hope i did not come on too strong as this was not my intention. Keep in touch, i am intrested in hearing about your outcome. ...........SEMPER FI!

 

[ShootnMathews]

I worked on my load some more today. Tested a few more lengths and charges. At 50.2 it shot well no sticky bolt, primers still slightly flattened. At 50.4 grains of 4831SC the bolt began to tighten up. Still easily functioned but could feel some stiffness. So I backed back down to 50.2 and played with the depth a little more. I settled on 2.94" COL. I cleaned the barrel between groups and noticed one thing. The first shot consistantly hit between 1/8-1/4" higher than the following shots. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th would all stack on top of each other measuring about 1/8" center to center of holes. I'm guessing at that because it was pretty much unmeasurable. Just a ragged hole.

So my final load for now ended up as :

50.2 grns 4831SC.........140 grn VLD......2.94" COL....group size .33" (including the clean bore shot that hits high)

Not sure of the velocity. Will try to get that this weekend and update this. Thanks for all the help.

My brake wa free til about the 20th shot. Froze now like everyone said it would. Don't plan on turning it off anyways.

 

[Sargesniper]

I worked on my load some more today. Tested a few more lengths and charges. At 50.2 it shot well no sticky bolt, primers still slightly flattened. At 50.4 grains of 4831SC the bolt began to tighten up. Still easily functioned but could feel some stiffness. So I backed back down to 50.2 and played with the depth a little more. I settled on 2.94" COL. I cleaned the barrel between groups and noticed one thing. The first shot consistantly hit between 1/8-1/4" higher than the following shots. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th would all stack on top of each other measuring about 1/8" center to center of holes. I'm guessing at that because it was pretty much unmeasurable. Just a ragged hole.

So my final load for now ended up as :

50.2 grns 4831SC.........140 grn VLD......2.94" COL....group size .33" (including the clean bore shot that hits high)

Not sure of the velocity. Will try to get that this weekend and update this. Thanks for all the help.

My brake wa free til about the 20th shot. Froze now like everyone said it would. Don't plan on turning it off anyways.

Congrats my friend. You should be very pleased with that type of shooting. I had no doubt as to whether it would group tight for you. I'm happy for you. Let me know your velocity readings were. Are you close to the lands with the VLD? Keep in touch,will be waiting for future development from you. ............SEMPER FI!

 

[ShootnMathews]

Oh... Sorry. Forgot that. The bore measures at 3.02" to the LANs which according to others is quite short. I tried several seating depths longer and even .01 shorter and .01 longer but none shot as well. Some quick figuring puts the bullet at .08 off the lands. Which seems super long to me but I can't argue with the results. I'm used to seating bullets at .01 or .02 off the LANs but I usually use noslers. Even the SMKs in my other guns seem to shoot the best at .01 off.

More shooting will tell. Suppose to rain here tomorrow but I'm going to try to zero it at 200 if weather permits.

 

[Sargesniper]

Oh... Sorry. Forgot that. The bore measures at 3.02" to the LANs which according to others is quite short. I tried several seating depths longer and even .01 shorter and .01 longer but none shot as well. Some quick figuring puts the bullet at .08 off the lands. Which seems super long to me but I can't argue with the results. I'm used to seating bullets at .01 or .02 off the LANs but I usually use noslers. Even the SMKs in my other guns seem to shoot the best at .01 off.

More shooting will tell. Suppose to rain here tomorrow but I'm going to try to zero it at 200 if weather permits.

Hope it doesn't rain ,but if your luck is like mine,bring your rain suit. I'll be hoping for a favorable range report. Got to go,cooking a Jambalaya and don't want it to burn. Keep me posted. ............SEMPER FI!

 

[BrentM]

Nice work shootnmathews. I am guessing 2750-2775 fps. There is an accuracy node in that area for sure. My rifle was good in that range too. Who know's though your rifle may handle the pressures a bit differently. Weather was horrible here yesterday so my buddy was not able to confirm drop on my rifle. That sucks. Weather is crappy again today and we are hunting tomorrow. That means I am only good for 650-700 right now. dagnabit.

sargesniper- I have a NF NXS 5.5-22 x 56 with NPR1.

Also, my main hunting weapon is a bow made by Mathews. See any connections here. : ) I have bow hunted since I was a little kid. My dad used to carry me around on his shoulders and I have been hooked ever since. LOL.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Brent. That's funny. I picked this name because its never taken. My email and surplus rifle forum names are the same. I still have my Mathews. Killed a nice 7 pt with it this year and a coyote last year. The last two years I've mostly hunted with a Martin savanna longbow. Killed a doe with it last year and a coyote this year.

I'm hoping to get in the high2700 but I doubt it. I'm kinda disappointed with the speed. But am happy with the accuracy. My sporterized Mosin nagant is shooting 2487 with a 174 grain SMK. Most people on this site laugh at those guns but mine shoots .5-.6 Moa at 350 yards. The other weekend I rang a 12" gong at 500 yards 5 for 5 in a 6-15 mph wind. Didn't measure the group but it looked like say 5" horizontally 2 vertically.

 

[Sargesniper]

Nice work shootnmathews. I am guessing 2750-2775 fps. There is an accuracy node in that area for sure. My rifle was good in that range too. Who know's though your rifle may handle the pressures a bit differently. Weather was horrible here yesterday so my buddy was not able to confirm drop on my rifle. That sucks. Weather is crappy again today and we are hunting tomorrow. That means I am only good for 650-700 right now. dagnabit.

sargesniper- I have a NF NXS 5.5-22 x 56 with NPR1.

Also, my main hunting weapon is a bow made by Mathews. See any connections here. : ) I have bow hunted since I was a little kid. My dad used to carry me around on his shoulders and I have been hooked ever since. LOL.

Yes i see the simularity there. Wouldn't sound as good with any other name. All of the NF"s i have are the R2 reticle. I had a hard time deciding on which one i should get and finally decided on the R2. R1 was was what i was debating myself over. I can still remember the hunting and fishing trips with my Dad also. Lost him at an early age. I was 16 He was 47. Lung cancer was the cause. Much suffering in the end. It still pains me to think about it. Have to run for now Grandchild waiting at school for me. .......SEMPER FI!

 

[Greyfox]

Still struggling to find the answer to why the speed has anything to do with the barrel life. I had way more pressure issue's with 4350 and 4831 than I do with retumbo.

Barrel life/throat erosion is a function of powder volume and cartridge dimension, commonly refered to as "overbore" a good example of overbore would be the fatter 6.5x284 compared to the 260 Remington. The fat hot steam of ten additional grains of powder coming out of the small 6.5 hole in the 6.5x284 generates lot more heat in the throat then the 260. Increased velocity is just a by product which is what you want in the first place. My 270WSM burned out a lot faster then my 6.5x284. My 300 WBY was gone in 500 rounds Fact is just about most of the magnums have comparable barrel life to the 6.5x284, some a lot worse. It's reputation as a barrel burner was earned by the target shooters that run very hot and are used to the smaller cartridges. They keep using it because it has super ballistics and accuracy. Shorter barrel life, comes with the ability to get the ballistics you need to kill game at 1000 yards with very low recoil. If you run a 6.5x284 at 2800-2850 FPS might as well shoot a 260. The issue is you trade off max range and ballistic performance. At 2975, the sweet spot for the 6.5x284, depending on the barrel, how hot you shoot it, cleaning process etc. You can expect 800-1200 rounds before you experience a drop off in accuracy. I'll take that any day for the ability to flatten a deer at 1000 yards.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Sarge

Very sorry to hear about your dad. My dad is still with me but I don't know for how long. Worry about him a lot. I worry to much about everyone. Gonna worry myself into the grave if I don't stop, but I can't.

Rained too much this morning and then work got in the way so my 200 yard site in will have to wait til later this weekend.

I've got to do a lot of hunting with my dad over the years but not near as much as I'd like to. Hope to get several more seasons. And hope I live to hunt many seasons with my boy who's 9 months now. Off to bed now. Early morning

Shootnmathews