Salt Bath Annealing Doesn't Work! by AMP

[26Reload]

Lots of companies have subsidiary companies...how do you not know if AMP isn't playing you.....maybe they own the rights...and are just feeding this to you to get more interest kicked up....ADVERTISING...
And they pay pennies on the dollar for the product and sell for more profit than the AMP annealer machines.........ha.....let that rot in your noggin.....haha.....

 

[bigngreen]

Salt bath is in no way cutting into AMP sales, they are products at opposite ends of the financial and operating spectrum. Salt bath is definitely cutting into flame annealing but not a blip on AMPs sales radar!

 

[jponto]

Salt bath is in no way cutting into AMP sales, they are products at opposite ends of the financial and operating spectrum. Salt bath is definitely cutting into flame annealing but not a blip on AMPs sales radar!

Maybe so....

 

[LongProng]

Salt bath is in no way cutting into AMP sales, they are products at opposite ends of the financial and operating spectrum. Salt bath is definitely cutting into flame annealing but not a blip on AMPs sales radar!

I would strongly disagree. Shooters looking for repeatable, consistent annealing results is AMPs target market. It also happens to be the reason people use the salt bath method. They have the "money is no object" market locked down. If they want to expand their market, they have to demonstrate why it's worth the extra money to upgrade.

 

[kiwikid]

I would strongly disagree. Shooters looking for repeatable, consistent annealing results is AMPs target market. It also happens to be the reason people use the salt bath method. They have the "money is no object" market locked down. If they want to expand their market, they have to demonstrate why it's worth the extra money to upgrade.

If this were true why would AMP be suggesting shooters on a budget should look at flame based systems?

 

[LongProng]

If this were true why would AMP be suggesting shooters on a budget should look at flame based systems?

To recommend an inferior option with the possibility of an upgrade purchase when their financial situation improves down the road. You recommend something that is nearly as good, there is little chance of an upgrade purchase. Not to mention, there is little doubt that the flame method works. They would look completely ridiculous if they said the flame method didn't work as well. So far they've managed to instill doubt on the salt bath like its some kind of voodoo.

 

[entoptics]

I just posted my setup and testing of salt bath annealing if anyone is interested.

To summarize...I think it works.

 

[kiwikid]

AMP have added an addendum to their original article to address some of the issues raised on various forums. It is at the bottom of their original article which is here.

https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/52/salt-bath-annealing--does-it-work-/

 

[Greyfox]

While intrigued by the salt bath annealing process, it wasn't enough to motivate me to switch from my Bench-Source, acquired several years ago when introduced. Too messy for me. With the use of the Bench Source I have established various tips(ex. sufficient gas container volume for consistency) and mastered the parameters for each of my cartridges in use. My determination of effectiveness is purely based on actual performance standards which are all that matter to me. I will admit that I don't anneal all my cartridges/loads. For example, with my 6.5x47's I maintain single digit ES/accuracy up to 20 firings with a trim every 7 or so firings. On the other hand my 300WM cases are annealed after 3-4 firings.
As to the ANP paper, having spent s lifetime in the very competitive technology space, it's extremely rare to observe a manufacturer evaluate their product against a competitors without intentionally OR non-intentionally injecting bias into the process. I pay these evaluations little mind. IMO.

 

[KyCarl]

Any testing by a company that has a vested interest in the out come must be suspect!
It should be carried out by a 3rd party that has no involvement in the results.
When I inspected at the shop if it passed my florescent penetrate tests
it went out to Magnaflux and they didn't care if it passed or not!

 

[J E Custom]

Still trying to wrap my head around all of this and believing that the human factor has lots to do with the outcome of any process. trying to figure out why some have great results and others not so great.

Here is one possible reason. Salt bath is an immersion process and must be placed in the salt bath case mouth down, others are normally up right (Case neck up) I did a simple displacement test, lowering the case in water and reading the displacement. With the primer still in (Some people anneal fired cases and size and de prime after annealing) the primed case displaced considerable more than the un primed case did because the case could not vent the air allowing for the water to fill the inside of the case.

I would think the salt would do the same thing and prevent the case from an even heating of the case. A flame heats the outside only, but with nothing inside the case but air it heats the inside quickly due to the case thickness.

Flame or inductance would not be effected by the primer but I could see how the salt bath could if it were not removed before annealing.

All systems work In my opinion and the end results depends greatly on the operator no mater what system you use. none are fool proof.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tata Tibor]

First let's start with something simple: "People always fears unknown". Since salt annealing is new and people don't understand it they will always criticize it.
I want to give just one hint. The biggest problem they claim to be is that salt annealing is only softening the shoulder and not the neck. So let me ask you one very simple question - what is the purpose of annealing?
When shooting brass cartridge by rapid change of temperature and pressure cartridge try to form to the shape of chamber and doing so the biggest stress is not put on the body or the neck, but the shoulder. If after few reloads the brass become too hard the stress can cause fractures and eventually fail. To prevent it you are annealing before it will happen. So if you are using your common sense and knowledge about these processes you will find out that the so called weakness of the salt annealing is actually it's biggest strength and advantage comparing to other methods.

 

[Korhil78]

First let's start with something simple: "People always fears unknown". Since salt annealing is new and people don't understand it they will always criticize it.
I want to give just one hint. The biggest problem they claim to be is that salt annealing is only softening the shoulder and not the neck. So let me ask you one very simple question - what is the purpose of annealing?
When shooting brass cartridge by rapid change of temperature and pressure cartridge try to form to the shape of chamber and doing so the biggest stress is not put on the body or the neck, but the shoulder. If after few reloads the brass become too hard the stress can cause fractures and eventually fail. To prevent it you are annealing before it will happen. So if you are using your common sense and knowledge about these processes you will find out that the so called weakness of the salt annealing is actually it's biggest strength and advantage comparing to other methods.

That's all good and well until you start getting split necks.

 

[J E Custom]

That's all good and well until you start getting split necks.

Even with minimum sizing the necks get worked the most and become the hardest first. If minimum sizing is done the shoulder is seldom re sized. The neck shoulder junction is the most probable area to crack or fail. Normal annealing includes this area and normal annealing includes the shoulder body junction to allow the annealing to cover the potential area of work hardening.

Neck sizing only, does not eliminate the need to anneal past the neck shoulder junction or the shoulder body junction, because the neck. shoulder and a small part of the body is subject to work hardening. All of these areas need to be annealed.

Normally only a poor chamber or over sizing will work harden the body area and cause failure.

J E CUSTOM