Remington Quality, just how bad is it???

[Cotton Mouth]

Hello, I am new here and am in the process of putting together a .223 for some varmint hunting.

I was really looking at the remingington VS but after seeing a few in person I was unimpressed (barrels not straight in stock etc.), now I see a lot of bad press on the web about them. Did I just get a couple of bad examples or are their problems that widespread (these rifles were at different stores).

the more I read the 12bvss savage sounds really good but for pure astetics would prefer a blued or matte barrel, and or a nice synthetic stock (not real critical but I love the was the 700 VS looks). the tighter twist on teh savage interests me for hte heavier bullets as I would like to use this on coyotes eventually (going praire dog hunting in may)

I guess I should put a question in here somewhere... I don't mind having a trigger job and touching up the bedding but am fairly new to centerfire and won't know what to do much beyond that if the VS doesn't shoot. I am looking for something that shoots good but is easily tinkered with/modified as I am using this as my first step into L/R shooting.

thanks for any advice you can give, I have already ordered the scope (burris signature 6-24) so I am set there. I got the matte finish to match the remington...

 

[Brian Rybicky]

Cotton,

I'd go with the savage, I have a 12bvss in .308 and it shoots very well, around .5 moa, and with the new triggers they have on them adjusting is very easy, and you shouldn't have to bed these guns. At the local 500 yard shoot theres always alot more savages in the top 10 then remingtons

good shootin'
Brian

 

[RBrowning]

I may have gotten the exception, but my Rem 22-250 is all I could ask for. If I am doing my part it will go to 500 yards for prarrie dogs or wood chucks. When I first got it I tried several brands of ammo to see which it preferred. Several were in the 3/8-5/8" range. I haven't reloaded for it yet, so I don't know how good it could do with propperly developed loads.

That being said, if I were to look for another factory varmint rifle, it would be Savage. Too many horror storries about Remington and too many glowing reports about Savage to try my luck again.

Just my opinion.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I have always seen poor quality in new remingtons. At one time I sold my VSSF which shot sub 3" groups at 600 yards to buy a Wby SVM. The quality was perfect, no tooling marks ect...

The funny thing is, it wouldnt group worth a crap and the POI would change slightly day to day. Maybee it was something I missed, but I kept it for quite a while hoping to fix the bugs. Never happened. I went back to the 700 and The first group was dang near a 1 holer. I have scince shot my best groups ever with this rifle.

I would stick to the 700 or a upper end savage.

 

[Ian M]

Friends have bought several VS and VLS Rems recently and I have shot most on the range. Knock on wood but they were all excellent rifles. No doubt Rem has let some poor rifles out or they would not have so much bad PR on the web and elsewhere, but they also make fine rifles.

I would look at the Win. M-70 Stealth also, I have been involved with several this fall and they were all excellent. Also check the M-70 Coyote, it is a nice rifle in .223.

The Savages are good shooting rifles but their triggers and stocks are usually second rate relative to the Rems and Wins. The VS and Stealths come with H-S Precision stocks that are part of the reason they cost more.

 

[4mesh063]

The only thing that scares me on the Savage is the extractor system. That just seems a little suspect when I look at it but I'm not experienced to say.

I am looking at buying a couple Rems and a Savage so I may get a look first hand. All are new in a package deal.

I have owned Remingtons in the past (all new) and my most recent purchase was in 1999. I am thrilled with the gun and have never had a problem with it.

But for the prices, I'd own a few more. Just, after having custom barrels, I just can't bring myself to spend the money for a gun with a factory barrel again. The ones I'm looking at are a "deal" so I'm probably gonna strip them for the actions and throw the rest away.

My Brother recently bought a 700 at Wal-Mart. A 30-06 for a project. Everything on it seemed to work fine, though we never fired it.

To a certain extent, I think it's asking a bit much to buy a gun off the shelf and expect it to be a great gun out of the box as so many people do.

 

[Dan McCarty]

Do a search on www.benchrest.com/forums/ click on factory/hybrid and www.varminthunter.com/forums/ggvg/index.shtml for several discussions on this topic. I own both, VLS in .308 and 12 BVSS in .223. Average MOA for many five-shot groups is in the low .6 range for both.

The 12 BVSS factor trigger was replaced by one from SSS. The new Accutrigger is getting good reviews. You may want to check the Savage (www.savagearms.com) and look at the new low profile stock, looks like the VLS stock.

The quality issue has me looking at .243 from Savage not Remington. Just don't have the funds and temperment to take a chance on Reminton. Hope this helps. Dan

 

[Guest]

if you going to get the remington get the vssf in .223. mine shot great and i think its better balanced than the vs.

 

[Cotton Mouth]

Thanks for all the replies, I know that any rifle will need some work right out of the box, just don't want to get to crazy with fixing things that should not have left the factory...

I am really looking at the winchester Stealth, have always been a bit of a winchester fan myself. do they still make it in .223 remington? their webpage doesn't list this as a caliber.

I will take some time this weekend and see what I can find in the area, when looking at a remington, aside from it all functioning properly and the barrel mostly centered in the stock, is there anything else I should look for? I found a couple VSSFs last weekend that seemed to be pretty straight and in good shape.

thanks again

 

[dwm]

If you plan on changing the stock and/or barrel anyway a REM700 BDL SS is not to bad. Can be had in the high $500 range. The factory BDL SS stock leaves much to be desired.

If not, I have bought a couple of REM 700 Senderos and a VSSF in the last two years that have turn out to be good rifles.

Doug

 

[Guest]

Just my .02 worth. My hunting partner bought a youth Rem 700 in .308win for his sons first hunting trip back in the summer. He purchased it in wal-mart for around 389.99. I was a little skeptical at best, and couldn't wait to see it. I was very happy when I did see it. Matte finish, Synthitic stock, and sitting strait in the stock with no bolt contact. I promptly cleanes the whole gun, mounted the gloss rings that the bonehead sold my buddy, Lapped the rings, and loaned him a Leupold 2-7x. Loaded some 125gr. Nosler balistic tips to around 2500fps. Headed to the range and promptly broke in the barrel, and after 30 rounds, that little 20" barrel was shootin' them into 5/8". Honest to god! Tell me that Remington doesn't put out a quality piece for the money! Needles to say, The youngn' dropped a doe at 110 yards, one shot, one kill. Enough to make a grown man cry!

 

[DwRuger]

You should check out savages 10fpxp-lea comes with an accutrigger but in a 308 instead of a 223. They also have the 12vss but it has a stainless barrel, but you can get in a 223

 

[Ian M]

You are correct, Winchester just dropped the .223 when they redesigned the Stealth. Unfortunate, although I am sure that there are still some .223's out there. My son has one and it is extremely accurate.
The new Stealth 2 looks pretty good, have not seen one yet.

 

[Austin]

Sorry, but I just gotta chime in here!

I use Remington actions almost exclusively and have yet to have a serious problem. The problems you were reading about were probably the ones back in the early 80's where the safety and trigger assembly were having trouble. I never have seen these issues as I only live 10 minutes from Jewell and I ALWAYS yank the stock triggers and install a Jewell. Best thing you can do for an M700 in my book! My M40A1 issued to me in the Marine Corps was one of the nicest sniper rifles that I have EVER had the pleasure to shoot. The 700, however, is the only one that I can speak for. Extractor leaves a little bit to be desired, but it's nothing the average shooter would notice and there are always the superior Sako's that you can swap in. I have owned about 75 M700's, and I have never had a single problem with any of them. The only drawback: It's easier to pull teeth on a pit bull than it is to get some parts for the 700 action from Remington. I lost a bolt one time at a match and I could not get them to replace it due to all the lawsuits they had some time ago. They wanted me to send a $2500.00 rifle in for them to tinker with and "fit" the bolt to, but I told them they were crazy if they thought I was doing that and they assured me they wouldn't screw anything up. Well, I had previously sent one rifle to Rem. one time (a custom 6PPC) and they totally screwed up and cost me a $2000.00 rifle for which I was never reimbursed (the guys at the Rem custom shop are VERY good though. Much better than just the "standard" techs.) Other than little issues like these, they are GREAT actions and also very strong and reliable. Whereas, you can spend in excess of $1000.00 on some actions out there, the good ol' 700 is tough to beat. One more note: the Win Model 70's are VERY good also. They are very much like the M700 and are also tough and reliable. Accessories for both of these rifles are in great abundance as well. Good luck!

TH

[ 01-10-2004: Message edited by: Austin ]