Relieving recoil lug area thoughts

[Firearrow]

I'm getting ready to bed my cousin's Christensen LR Mesa and I was roughing up the action area and when I got to the recoil lug area I started to think about something. I know you want to have solid contact between the back of the recoil lug and the stock, and to have just enough clearance on the sides and the front so that you can remove the rifle from the action. I have always just slightly roughed up the sides and from of the lug area in the stock just so there will be a strong union of the bedding compound to the stock.

But here is the question. Why wouldn't I want to rough up or remove just a little bit of material from the stock where it would make contact with the back of the recoil lug? After all isn't this the area where we want a perfect union between the stock and the recoil lug? Or is there enough clearance already between the stock and recoil lug that there will be just enough bedding material to get in between the stock and lug to make a perfect union?

 

[Lazy D]

Absolutely. I'll mill out that area even on stocks with an aluminum bedding block. Then glass it all in. You can put a layer of masking tape on the sides, bottom and front of the lug. Then when you're done you'll have clearance where needed and full contact on the back of the lug.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I would advise NOT to relieve or touch the factory area of the recoil lug at all. Unless you find a problem, the back of the recoil lug recess should be left alone. Compound doesn't go in there, use release agent on the backside of the lug.
This is the basis from where all your efforts at bedding the lug area are held true when you do your bedding job.
Reliefs should be made in this order, sides, underneath and forward of the recoil lug.
There should be at least 1 piece of electrical tape thickness clearance on the sides, 2 strips is fine too and at least 2 strips under the lug. Forward of the recoil lug should be filled completely, but, no compound should be under the barrel knox form.
I do all stocks this way except Ruger stocks.
Use threaded bar in the action screw holes and align everything with cones and nuts lightly finger tightened with the compound slowly being squeezed out so it fills the space evenly without air bubbles. Remove excess prior to the compound going completely hard.
I let mine cure for 12 hours before removing the nuts, then allow another 12 hours of set-up before removing the stock.
I use Devcon 10110 on everything and floor polish as release agent.

Cheers.

 

[Lazy D]

You can definitely do it with out touching the bedding block if you don't care about getting 100% perfect contact. If you plan to do that don't waste your time mixing up bedding compound. Relive the area in front, bottom and sides. Bolt it in and shoot it. I like to make sure my customers rifles shoot the best it can. Aluminum bedding blocks never make perfect contact with the action. I always mill out a substantial amount around where the from ring of the action sits too. I leave a tiny tab of aluminum in front of the action screw holes. That sets how far down in the stock the action can go. I make my own bedding screws out of round stock that perfectly fit the pillars. The action slides in perfectly straight. Mask off the stock. Give the action a good coating of Manns 200 mold release. Wrap surgical tubing around the action to hold it in place.
Keep your excess epoxy and check the hardness in about 45 min. While it's firmed up but still pliable trim it off. I'll take a tongue depressor and grind a knife edge on it. Dip it in rubbing alcohol and it'll literally slice away the excess.
PM me for more Pro Tips if needed.

 

[Firearrow]

I would advise NOT to relieve or touch the factory area of the recoil lug at all. Unless you find a problem, the back of the recoil lug recess should be left alone. Compound doesn't go in there, use release agent on the backside of the lug.
This is the basis from where all your efforts at bedding the lug area are held true when you do your bedding job.
Reliefs should be made in this order, sides, underneath and forward of the recoil lug.
There should be at least 1 piece of electrical tape thickness clearance on the sides, 2 strips is fine too and at least 2 strips under the lug. Forward of the recoil lug should be filled completely, but, no compound should be under the barrel knox form.
I do all stocks this way except Ruger stocks.
Use threaded bar in the action screw holes and align everything with cones and nuts lightly finger tightened with the compound slowly being squeezed out so it fills the space evenly without air bubbles. Remove excess prior to the compound going completely hard.
I let mine cure for 12 hours before removing the nuts, then allow another 12 hours of set-up before removing the stock.
I use Devcon 10110 on everything and floor polish as release agent.

Cheers.

I would advise NOT to relieve or touch the factory area of the recoil lug at all. Unless you find a problem, the back of the recoil lug recess should be left alone. Compound doesn't go in there, use release agent on the backside of the lug.
This is the basis from where all your efforts at bedding the lug area are held true when you do your bedding job.
Reliefs should be made in this order, sides, underneath and forward of the recoil lug.
There should be at least 1 piece of electrical tape thickness clearance on the sides, 2 strips is fine too and at least 2 strips under the lug. Forward of the recoil lug should be filled completely, but, no compound should be under the barrel knox form.
I do all stocks this way except Ruger stocks.
Use threaded bar in the action screw holes and align everything with cones and nuts lightly finger tightened with the compound slowly being squeezed out so it fills the space evenly without air bubbles. Remove excess prior to the compound going completely hard.
I let mine cure for 12 hours before removing the nuts, then allow another 12 hours of set-up before removing the stock.
I use Devcon 10110 on everything and floor polish as release agent.

Cheers.

I'm only asking this as a question and not arguing. If the action is held in place by the pillars with the rubber tubing/action screws/c clamp and you relieve a small amount in the lug area so that the back of the recoil lug can make a perfect fit to the front on the lug area in the stock why would you want that. I just guessing there is not a perfect fit when the stock comes to us and we are just doing what we can to make that fit as best we can.

Again, not arguing just asking.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I understand the question.
The reason to not touch where the recoil lug touches the stock is due to 2 things.
Firstly, this is is WHERE the datum has been used to build the stock, careful placement is made when the mould is set-up so that that point and the action screw holes align in the fixture.
Changing this by removing material is not advisable or required as doing so can create an unwanted datum.
Secondly, skim bedding composite stocks any where that impacts it often fails, especially behind recoil lugs and tangs.
If you do this without using threaded rods and aligning cones to keep everything centred, your outcome will be unsatisfactory.
I have bedded hundreds of rifles, there are many right ways and many wrong ways to bed a rifle.
If using rubber bands to hold the action in place, you don't want clamps or any other devices putting force on the action, only finger tight cones to centre the pillars.
Just a note to take into consideration, I have always done bedding with pillars in this order:
Front pillar first, let it set up fully.
Rear pillar second, let it set up fully.
Lastly, recoil lug and action bedding last.
Some rifle types, Rem 700 and clones are better bedded when done in 2 separate procedures. Recoil lug and front bedding first, which sets up the basis for a level fitment, then the tang last.

I can't see a stock coming to you with a sloppy fit in the recoil area from the manufacturer.

Cheers.

 

[ButterBean]

I would advise NOT to relieve or touch the factory area of the recoil lug at all. Unless you find a problem, the back of the recoil lug recess should be left alone. Compound doesn't go in there, use release agent on the backside of the lug.
This is the basis from where all your efforts at bedding the lug area are held true when you do your bedding job.
Reliefs should be made in this order, sides, underneath and forward of the recoil lug.
There should be at least 1 piece of electrical tape thickness clearance on the sides, 2 strips is fine too and at least 2 strips under the lug. Forward of the recoil lug should be filled completely, but, no compound should be under the barrel knox form.
I do all stocks this way except Ruger stocks.
Use threaded bar in the action screw holes and align everything with cones and nuts lightly finger tightened with the compound slowly being squeezed out so it fills the space evenly without air bubbles. Remove excess prior to the compound going completely hard.
I let mine cure for 12 hours before removing the nuts, then allow another 12 hours of set-up before removing the stock.
I use Devcon 10110 on everything and floor polish as release agent.

Cheers.

X-2

 

[Firearrow]

I understand the question.
The reason to not touch where the recoil lug touches the stock is due to 2 things.
Firstly, this is is WHERE the datum has been used to build the stock, careful placement is made when the mould is set-up so that that point and the action screw holes align in the fixture.
Changing this by removing material is not advisable or required as doing so can create an unwanted datum.
Secondly, skim bedding composite stocks any where that impacts it often fails, especially behind recoil lugs and tangs.
If you do this without using threaded rods and aligning cones to keep everything centred, your outcome will be unsatisfactory.
I have bedded hundreds of rifles, there are many right ways and many wrong ways to bed a rifle.
If using rubber bands to hold the action in place, you don't want clamps or any other devices putting force on the action, only finger tight cones to centre the pillars.
Just a note to take into consideration, I have always done bedding with pillars in this order:
Front pillar first, let it set up fully.
Rear pillar second, let it set up fully.
Lastly, recoil lug and action bedding last.
Some rifle types, Rem 700 and clones are better bedded when done in 2 separate procedures. Recoil lug and front bedding first, which sets up the basis for a level fitment, then the tang last.

I can't see a stock coming to you with a sloppy fit in the recoil area from the manufacturer.

Cheers.

Sounds reasonable to me. Always learn something new everyday.

 

[Firearrow]

So it is funny that my cousin's Christensen LR Mesa came across my bench and we were talking about not touching the back of the recoil lug area of the stock. I'm guessing Christensen messed up their "Spot bedding" on this one and it looks like it makes uneven contact with the recoil lug. I was thinking the high spots should be sanded/dremeled down so that even contact can be had from this point forward.

Thoughts?

 

[Lazy D]

I've explained, in detail, how I would do it. Do you have bedding screws or pins to align the action screws to the pillars? If so, grind it all out and do a proper bedding. It appears they don't use an aluminum bedding block.

 

[trout004]

Not trying to derail, but I want to find out more…

Question, is it better or worse to have a small amount of bedding under the barrel shank just in front of the lug or is it best to have the entire area free floating?

 

[Firearrow]

I've explained, in detail, how I would do it. Do you have bedding screws or pins to align the action screws to the pillars? If so, grind it all out and do a proper bedding. It appears they don't use an aluminum bedding block.

I'd say it's a combination of both. I am using screws that are not all the way threaded and using tape to take out the gap between the pillars and screws to keep everything aligned and not causing stress.

My question was based on the fact that you said do not touch the back of recoil lug area and that the stock shouldn't be messed up or misaligned. When I looked into the lug area this morning all I saw was an area where the lug and the lug area doesn't have perfect or ideal contact because of a shotty spot bed from Christensen Arms. So I wanted to ask if you guys would relieve this area that wasn't spot bedded correctly so that there could be a better fit in this area.

I'm not asking for a redo on how to bed an action, just getting clarification.

 

[Bobby Bailey]

MM had some good points. I skin my cat a bit differently; scrape out the action recess except under the receiver ring and tang. That keeps the height.
I make my own pillars from .5" OD aluminum, ID 5/16". I have teflon tubing, 5/16" OD and 1/4" ID to insert into the pillars that then centers the action screws. Drill the stock 9/16" at the action screw locations to clearance the pillars.
Attach pillars/tubing/action screws to action. Place in stock to check reliefs are still good.
Apply 5 minute epoxy to lower pillar/action screw openings in stock. Place action into stock, let 5 minute epoxy lock pillars to stock.
Later, remove action screws releasing action from stock. Mix and pour liquid AcraGlas around pillars, fully locking them to stock.
Now relieve material from where action sat on stock, the pillars now control heigth. Also I mill out 1/8" to 1/4" from behing the recoil lug so no skim bedding behind the lug. The pillars still have the tubing centering the action screws, so no worry about losing action to stock reference when milling out behind recoil lug, and I get substantial bedding behind lug.
Mix compound and bed entire action in one step. If any small voids are found after separating action/stock, touchup with small drops of compound.
This the reader digest version of my process. I've used it now after several years of testing. Never more than .001" movement between stock and action after bedding while tightening/loosening the alternating action screws.

Just my method, one of many that work.

 

[Lazy D]

I'd say it's a combination of both. I am using screws that are not all the way threaded and using tape to take out the gap between the pillars and screws to keep everything aligned and not causing stress.

My question was based on the fact that you said do not touch the back of recoil lug area and that the stock shouldn't be messed up or misaligned. When I looked into the lug area this morning all I saw was an area where the lug and the lug area doesn't have perfect or ideal contact because of a shotty spot bed from Christensen Arms. So I wanted to ask if you guys would relieve this area that wasn't spot bedded correctly so that there could be a better fit in this area.

I'm not asking for a redo on how to bed an action, just getting clarification.

Oh no, I said definitely remove material in that area. MM is the one that tried to tell ya how bad of an idea that was.
I always remove material and not just .020". I remove a substantial amount to get a thick area of bedding compound.
You are right on track with adding some tape to keep the screws centered up. That was gonna be my suggestion if you didn't have actual pins for bedding. I think you are going to do just fine with it.
Leave a small area in the center to limit how far down in the stock you can press the action. Test fit it and look at the ejection port. Try to match it up with the cut out in the stock. Also on side bolt releases you have to make sure you don't lower that action in the stock to the point they make contact. Hope that makes sense.