Recovered 208 A-Max... from LR Black Bear kill

[remingtonman_25_06]

On something that can bite back, I"ll take 2 holes vs. 1 any day of the week...

What if he had hit the shoulder?? A bear can go a ways with only 1 broken shoulder and I doubt you'd have much of a blood trail to follow at that. I know I dont wanna be chasing ANY bear with one broken shoulder. Thats asking for trouble IMO.

Amax are good for coyotes/antelope/deer, anything bigger I"ll take a little stouter bullet please.

 

[yote bomber]

That's what I'm thinking too...

Plus, if you take a look at the terrain in the picture... you can tell that tracking a bear, even 50 yards, in that stuff is an absolute nightmare. That stuff isn't just thick... it's vertical too.

 

[OKIE2]

I have a friend in northern utah him and his group of friends that not only hunt but kill a lot of elk every year told me the only tried and true bullets to use is from 165 grain to 200 grain in the interbounds and grand slams gets them one shot kills and 7mm mags don't cut the mustard only 300's and 338's gets the job done right. He told me that one year a guy shot one with a 7mm mag it took 4 shots to put the elk down for good. and the average distance of shots is from 85 to 185 yards and running almost always. I ask him about the 208 amax he told me to forget it stay with what works. I did not ask him about the accubonds so I don't know how good they work.

 

[Michael Eichele]

On something that can bite back, I"ll take 2 holes vs. 1 any day of the week...

What if he had hit the shoulder?? A bear can go a ways with only 1 broken shoulder and I doubt you'd have much of a blood trail to follow at that. I know I dont wanna be chasing ANY bear with one broken shoulder. Thats asking for trouble IMO.

Amax are good for coyotes/antelope/deer, anything bigger I"ll take a little stouter bullet please.

Very well put. I couldnt have said it any better.

The only thing I will add is that the AMAX's are much more predictable than the SMK's, typically have higher BC's per caliber/bullet weight are just as accurate or more and have reliable low velocity expansion. The draw back is at high velocity they are too frangible to be very reliable on bigger game than deer or sheep. Even then at super high velocity they are not the best choice. In short, they have their place and can even be the best bullet for a given set of circumstances. I have shot dall rams and sitka blacktail and mule deer at similar ranges with AB's and AMAX's. I would definately say that the AB is a much better hunting bullet terminaly within its recomended velocity ranges. Even though I believe the AB is a better terminal bullet than the AMAX, I can say for certain that on my up and coming coues whitetail hunt this December I will be using the AMAX over the AB because the AMAX is sufficient for this size of deer and due to the small nature of this critter, I want superb accuracy and as high a BC as possible to help ensure an impact inside the 6" or so vital area of this tiny deer. However, if it was mule deer I was after, I would be using the AB's.

 

[Chopaka81]

Congrats on the bear!

Just to come at the bullet performance from another point of view, er it took three steps and died, just because the bullet didnt form a perfect mushroom, performance is marginal!! come on fellas, the bear died, souped the insides IMHO GREAT!
No intention to ruffle feathers or **** people off, just if that was my bear I would be more than happy with the bullet performance, it killed it, quickly!
What more do we want.

Just my 2c.

Regards 300WSMMAD

I was thinking the same thing. Why fuss over "all" of the energy being expended within the critter instead of being split between the critter and the hillside?
It is interesting that .338" 300gr SMK's are good enough in an EDGE, but .308" 200gr SMK's are not, same goes for the 208 AMAX. I wonder about the .308" 240gr SMK? Is it considered no good too?
I remember post mortum exams of .308" 180gr SBT (GK) launched at 3200 fps, after I got past the lungs hanging on the sage brush in a 6' radius, and walked up to the mulie laying there with a 8" exit hole, I figured the terminal performance was pretty terminal.
Based upon what I have seen in this single thread, the jury has not come in.

 

[Good]

my up and coming coues whitetail hunt this December

Where is your hunt at Michael?

 

[Michael Eichele]

Where is your hunt at Michael?

Arizona. Unit 22

 

[ivo]

I don't see all the fuss over retained bullet weight and separation. The bear went 20 yards and dropped. I have shot game with both types of bullets from coyotes to moose(in calibres ranging from .264win mag to .338 Lapua) and the farthest anything went was a whitetail that raced about 80 yards after I took the top of his heart off with a 180gr Accubond out of my .300 Weatherby. If you hit it in the right place with almost any bulletits dead.

***The one bullet I do not recommend is the Lapua Scenar, they will not expand, separate, mushroom or anything else. They will either pencil straight through or make a J shape and tumble***


Ivo

 

[elkaholic]

Good post and discussion. I make my own bullets and do a lot of testing with other brands as well so would like to add this comment. I have used AB's and they are very accurate and are a good bullet AS LONG A TERMINAL VELOCITY IS 2500 OR HIGHER! They are made to hold together at high velocity in the big Magnums. This is good! The bad news is Magnums will shoot farther and when the velocity drops off they will not expand!Nosler uses a hard lead core to help control expansion. I once shot an elk with a 200 AB at 1025 yds. and I might as well have used a solid. The bullet lost about 20 grs. of weight and didn't mushroom whatsoever (just rubbed off the nose) I design my bullets with a thin nose, a high B.C. and bond the core to the jacket. They perform very well in my 300 ultra at long range and hold together sufficiently to reach hide on the far side at shorter range. This is not a commercial because I don't market my bullets. What I'm suggesting is, I will take a Berger or A-max any day at ranges exceeding 500 yds. They also hit harder because they carry the velocity and don't drop or drift as much. For what it's worth...Rich

 

[OKIE2]

Then what is you choice for under 500 yard range

 

[elkaholic]

Accubonds are fine. They are usually very accurate, mushroom well and hold together in heavier game with shoulder shots. When I make my own for higher velocity or large game at closer range I use a double jacket and bond them (i.e. a .257 inside a .308) or load the .257 backwards and make a partition.......Rich

 

[Chopaka81]

I just got home from my fall mule deer hunting trip and I was sucessfull in harvest a buck using the 208 gr AMAX at a distance of 472 yds. The buck was close enough that I just just held high and dropped the hammer.

The bullet performed very well and delivered violence to the buck. It "passed quickly and humanly".

The muzzle velocity was 3164 fps.

I am not the sort that will post blood and guts photo's. The exit hole was about 2 inches and took a rib with it. Pieces of the lungs were found on the hillside, the blood trail was obvious and easy to follow.

 

[OKIE2]

Then how about a picture of your rifle and what caliber it is

 

[D.Camilleri]

I wouldn't be too hard on the performance of the 208 amax. I recovered a 180 gr NAB from an antelope I shot this year at about 400 yards. The accubond looks very similar to the picture of your Amax with the exception that the small amount of lead remaining was still attached to the jacket. The accubond appeared to blow up on the hide of the antelope making an 8 inch hole in the hide before penetrating to the off side where the bullet was recovered. The good thing was that it was an instant kill. The bad thing is that the bullet integrity isn't up to what I would expect from a premium bonded bullet.