Re-barrel a Win M-70 or start over?

[TxAggie94]

Decisions, decisions....

I have a Winchester M-70 (post '64) in 300 Win Mag (Black Shadow - plastic stock, lightweight barrel) that has always been a disappointment in terms of accuracy. Several years ago, I dumped the plastic stock and put a Bell and Carlson Medalist on it. After a lot more shooting, I came to notice a correlation: The first cold bore shot will go where I want. Second shot is 50/50, and its a crap shoot there after. Working up loads is an exercise in extreme patience.

I am now considering having it rebarreled and I'm wondering if this makes sense. I am hoping I can get something to do what I want going this route at less expense than selling the -70 and building from scratch or trying to buy something. Reading around, I don't see too many folks building rifles on the M-70...I'm wondering if there is some reason for this, or if it is suitable for my needs.


By way of background, what I want is a gun I can hunt with (i.e. doesn't need wheels and a hitch to drag around through the mountains) for game up to elk. And to me, a 'precision' rifle is one that has the accuracy to reach or exceed the limits of my own ability. I routinely shoot my Creedmore out to 600. The way the 300 shoots, I'm not comfortable taking a shot on an animal beyond 200. I'd like to extend that significantly.

Is putting a barrel on this rifle a viable path?

 

[toddc]

No.

 

[toddc]

Unless you have a smith go thru the whole rig, you may well end up in the same boat. Could be 50 different issues causing this. A barrel will be $500 installed. That $500 could buy 8 different mid level guns that will actually shoot OR you could put it towards a custom action OR put together a screw together Savage or Remage for under $1k THAT WILL SHOOT.
Also many smiths will turn up their noses at a Win, the resale will be crummy and there are very few stock and trigger options.
Just my opinion.

 

[HARPERC]

Can be done, Yes. Almost any modern action, can be stocked, barreled, and made to shoot well enough to use as you describe.

Doesn't appear it's brought much joy to your life so far, and absent sentimental value I'd kick it loose.

Some decent over the counter rifles out there today, decent deals on used customs, and good smiths to build one from scratch.

 

[RAT807]

I have my dad's Winchester 70 264 Mag built in 1965 and just had a new barrel installed. I had a Kreiger 4 grove cut to 26" and a straight taper done. The smith had to remove some wood to fit the larger profiled barrel but every other thing was great and no more work was done. I asked about installing pillars and bedding the action. He said shoot it first. I have already shot several groups in the 1/2" or better at 100 yards and I haven't tested bullet seating depths plus had 3 groups with extreme spreads of 14, 10 and 2 ft/ ps. YMMV but mine was worth a new barrel

 

[Greyfox]

The issues that you are experiencing are very likely due to the present barrel. There are lots of shooters that have successfully rebarreled their Model 70 actions and prefer it to the Remington 700, particularly the CRF configurations. The Model 70 is not as popular a choice in action because it is not as easy to rebarrel as the round body design of the Remington 700/clones, and many gunsmiths are not equipped, or just not experienced in working with the Model 70. You just need to find an experienced gunsmith or use one of the top quality barrel makers(i.e. Bartlien, Hart, Krieger) that will rebarrel and true up their barrels to the Model 70 action. You can expect it to deliver accuracy equivalent to a rebarreled Remington 700 action.

 

[hawk45]

A good action can always be built into a precision gun, if you have the money and patience. The 70 is a good action and should be able to get sorted by a good gunsmith. That being said, if you don't want to dump money into the gun, you can sell it and buy a quality off the shelf gun with an MOA warranty. Then if you have any issues, just send it back to them. Both are viable options depending on time and pockets. You are probably looking at $600- $1000 to have your existing gun trued, inspected, rebarreled and bedded. A quality new gun is about the same (less what you get for the M70 when you sell). Best of luck with your decision.

 

[TxAggie94]

Sounds like most would lean toward a new gun. I guess that would get around my other gripe about the Win - the short mag box. I am kinda tired of loading one at a time.

I'll talk to a local smith here this afternoon and see what he says.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Sounds like most would lean toward a new gun. I guess that would get around my other gripe about the Win - the short mag box. I am kinda tired of loading one at a time.

I'll talk to a local smith here this afternoon and see what he says.

IMO that is the place to start.

It sounds like a barrel that "wanders" with heat loading.

Cold bore shot being predictable is really good. Follow up shots that can be predicted is good but you describe follow up shots that are not predictable.

If you buy one that shoots, what do you do with the old one?
If you pay to upgrade the old one and it doesn't work out?
If you buy one that doesn't shoot, what do you do?

There are many offerings now from inexpensive to grand. Ruger American Magnum (I have a RPR, Weatherby Vanguard, R700, you name it. Makeers will have it in 300WM.

Life is not perfect.

 

[TxAggie94]

If you buy one that shoots, what do you do with the old one?
If you pay to upgrade the old one and it doesn't work out?
If you buy one that doesn't shoot, what do you do?

1 - sell it. There's no emotional attachment and I have no need for a rifle I don't like to shoot.
2 - Probably live with it for a number of years. Or maybe try to sell it for whatever I can get and buy something over the counter or used, hoping I get lucky.
3 - Depends on what you mean by doesn't shoot. If it will hold MOA, I may not be overly pleased, but I'm better off than I am now. And maybe that gives me a better option for upgrading down the road. If it doesn't...I guess I need to be careful about the brand and shop and take it back to sort out or replace.


I talked to two shops Wednesday. The smith was off for the week at the first one. Maybe I didn't explain myself well, but the guy that I spoke with wants me to rebed it and shoot 30-40 rounds without cleaning to see if it "settles in". I'll go back next week and talk to the gun smith.

The other shop I talked to estimated under $900 to true the action, adjust the trigger, rebarrel and bed it. This assumes the heavier contour barrel I plan to go with fits or can be made to work in the stock. Otherwise, I'll be looking at additional cost for a new stock. They guarantee 1/2 MOA for a rebarrel on "most" calibers.

Another option is to sell this one and buy something new OTC...probably would be a Savage LRH. I'm still undecided on caliber, but the savage comes in 2 of the ones I'm considering...just not the one I seem to be leaning towards. Then I have a gun that should shoot better than what I have now, but may not be quite up to what I want. Down the road, maybe I have the option of a new barrel, perhaps with a rechamber if I want, for less than what it would cost to have the Win trued and barreled.

The last option close to my budget...and requires holding off a while to put aside some more...is a semi-custom from a local shop. They start around $1700, realistically, looking at $2K to get what i want.

Ugh...

 

[CogburnR]

The Winchester can be easily modified to accept 3.5+ to 3.6" cartridges. Most of the time all you have to do is pop out the spot welded in spacer in the back of the magazine, shorten the bolt stop, put in a 7STW cartridge follower and possibly file a little out of the rails in the back of the action above the mag box. It really isn't a big job....like less than an hour total.

Pac-Nor rebarrels Winchesters. A 270-300WM would be a good cartridge and they chamber for it. They have numerous reamers available.

Stocks are a little hard to find for the M70. Strangely the stock makers just don't do a lot of stocks for it. Boyd's makes some stocks but usually with a factory barrel channel. Choate makes a few stocks like their ultimate sniper stock.

That being said you can probably sell it and buy a Vanguard, M700 or whatever for not as much as rebarreling. Whatever you buy probably won't shoot as well though.

I like M70's, especially CRF models. I have a M70 CRF in 270-300WM and it shoots right at .5moa with several loads. Currently I am shooting a 150 at 3320 and 165's at 3200fps, 140's are around 3450fps

 

[WildRose]

Aggie if it's a push feed action rather than controlled round feed (big claw extractor) you'd probably do better selling it and replacing it.

If it's the post 64 CRF Chris at Benchmark Barrels can true it and put on a match quality barrel very reasonably.

 

[TxAggie94]

It is a post 64, but its a push feed.

Just curious: what is it about a push fed Winchester that makes the difference between keeping and selling it? Would you make the same recommendation of any brand push feed? Or is there something unique about the Win push feed that makes it inferior?

For the record, y'all have about convinced me to sell. But that middle of the road option (rebarrel the Win) is tempting.

 

[WildRose]

It is a post 64, but its a push feed.

Just curious: what is it about a push fed Winchester that makes the difference between keeping and selling it? Would you make the same recommendation of any brand push feed? Or is there something unique about the Win push feed that makes it inferior?

For the record, y'all have about convinced me to sell. But that middle of the road option (rebarrel the Win) is tempting.

They just don't have the same value as either the Pre 64 or the newer version that came out in the 90's with the claw extractor.

Winchester was going through some serious financial problems in the post 64 era and decided that the solution was to make a cheaper receiver.

I own a lot of different actions including one push feed model 70 in .338wm. My favorite action of all though is the modern CRF second only to the pre 64.