Question on "new" hht bullets

cohunt

cohunt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
6,416
Reaction score
11,353
City & State/Province
Colorado Springs, CO
Ok- I know this is going to be a sensitive subject and hopefully the thread doesn't get locked.

Im hoping we can keep this to facts and not opinions but I know its a bit subjective.

Im pretty sure we have all read that HH and HHT bullets have slightly changed.

We are all familiar with the HH "vapor trail " on the original bullets which is from the machine oil left on after manufacturing

We know that this oil is now not present, as its cleaned off after manufacturing.

It does make sense that the oil in the tip helped cause hydraulic expansion and guys are putting oil or wax back in the tips to re-gain that aspect of the bullets.

We've also heard that the proprietary copper alloy has stayed the same and not changed even though its hard to obtain and expensive.

My question is mainly related to possible changes to the tipped bullets.

What changes have happened?
-Was there oil under the tip and now there is not?
-Has the actual plastic tip material changed?
- has the "hollow point cavity" changed at all?
-when did this change happen? Black tips, pink tips, teal tips? Were there 2 versions of the black tips like ive read there may have been?
-how many people have observed differences in "time to tip" or "killing efficiency" on animals?

Im not trying to push anyone under a bus here, im not trying to point fingers or sway opinions
Im trying to get more factual data to base my own opinion on since my "data on animals" is extremely limited

I do know the 145hht is so far the most accurate load ive been able to build/shoot out of my 7rm- but im still in the process of testing a few more bullets.

If you have noticed a change in killing efficiency, was it minor or extreme? What is your intended poi? Vitals, shoulder, cns, neck, head? ( please don't get into ethics of poi guys)

I know, I know --- get out the pop corn and "ibtl"

I hope i/we can gain some more knowledge and factual data on actual changes before this thread disappears

Please help keep this thread civil if at all possible
 
Go On Popcorn GIF
 
No experience with the HH or HHT and not sure about the oil causing the vapor trail as all bullets have a vapor trail that can be seen through a spotting scope. I have been a big fan of all copper bullets (Barnes/MB) until recently. Since this is a long range hunting forum I will clarify that they many shoot great at shorter distances but depending on the caliber and starting MV they loose stability much quicker than other options when they move from transonic. We found that with 2 28 Noslers at 3170 and 3225 they were still good at 1424 but were all over the the place at 1604. We have been down to Barbourcreek 5 times in the past year for level 1, Level 2, Alumni Days, and 1/2 day hunter prep course. On the recommendation from James Eagleman we moved to the Berger 180gr Hybrid which is heavier than the 168 copper. We found additional 100FPS in both rifles and when trueing the BCs in both rifles they came out close to 10% higher than reported on the box at 1100 yards. With the coppers the were 10-15% below what was on the box. The longer length of the copper bullets to get a similar weight makes them difficult to stabilize over longer distances. I took my Antelope at 1234 last Saturday quartering away dropped where it stood running down the spine and going through the far side front shoulder with a nice size exit. Velocity was 1960 on impact.
 
In this rifle I have tried bergers and they do ok, but not as consistent accuracy as I'd like-- i can't use "heavies" due to twist rate ( i know James seems to be a berger guy- everyone has their preferences)

I have a load with eldm's that's decent, and the 143hh and 145hht shoot extremely well, im also trying some mc guires and apex too, im not a huge Barnes fan and haven't had good luck with ablr either. As you can see, im not brand specific as long as I can get accuracy im happy with and killing efficiency that im happy with ill use what works best for me

What's interesting is when suppressed, my eldm, hh, and hht loads all group within less than an inch of each other at 100 so the poa/poi is pretty similar ( but when the suppressor comes off and the mb goes on they can be quite different) -- ive taken all 3 out to 700 yards on paper but as I said, my "on animal" use is extremely limited

Oh yeah, im a "vitals" kind of guy when hunting if that helps compare things
 
Last edited:
daddaman said:
No experience with the HH or HHT and not sure about the oil causing the vapor trail as all bullets have a vapor trail that can be seen through a spotting scope.
Click to expand...
In a thread with questions specifically about a certain bullet/brand, then go ramble on about something else...classic.
 
cohunt said:
That's fine, I knew things will get side tracked- as long as we can stay civil, we can hopefully gain some knowledge or info
Click to expand...
If you have an "Australian Filter" you can read all about @fordy's findings on all this. LOL.

What I found with HH, if it was a balanced bullet in the line, they killed with and without the oil in great fashion. (Balanced as tip depth & dia)
The oil accentuates the air disruption/Hammer trail over the PDR peaks & valleys. Without oil in the tips the humidity level at the time of firing will make the Hammer trail more or less noticeable. Same with HHTs. HHTs had a very diminished Hammer trail. Lots of times undetectable. I don't think there was ever any oil placed under the tips of the HHTs by the manufacturer.

Fordy's wax testing is interesting. Up to the individual to accept and/or apply his many hypothesis.

I had some of the best experiences with HH bullets and an absolute failure on the highest levels with some HHTs. About like the other big name brand bullets. Some work great, some don't and the manufacturers make changes according to their needs in manufacturing that don't go reported to the consumer.
 
BRADMOTO said:
If you have an "Australian Filter" you can read all about @fordy's findings on all this. LOL.

What I found with HH, if it was a balanced bullet in the line, they killed with and without the oil in great fashion. (Balanced as tip depth & dia)
The oil accentuates the air disruption/Hammer trail over the PDR peaks & valleys. Without oil in the tips the humidity level at the time of firing will make the Hammer trail more or less noticeable. Same with HHTs. HHTs had a very diminished Hammer trail. Lots of times undetectable. I don't think there was ever any oil placed under the tips of the HHTs by the manufacturer.

Fordy's wax testing is interesting. Up to the individual to accept and/or apply his many hypothesis.

I had some of the best experiences with HH bullets and an absolute failure on the highest levels with some HHTs. About like the other big name brand bullets. Some work great, some don't and the manufacturers make changes according to their needs in manufacturing that don't go reported to the consumer.
Click to expand...
That's the problem is they seem to be different across the board depending on which one you are using-- fordy and bb don't seem to have much data with the 145hht or 143 hh so im searching for others that might have knowledge/data of what changes (if any) have actually happened-- i did ask the source at one point and iirc the answered was "nothing has changed"-- ill have to go back and look at past correspondence with several members ive exchanged in the past
 
Guys, I have received several pm's (as I expected)--- I am not trying to bash any member or manufacturer here or their field results or observations-- im also not trying to bash hammer bullets

Im merely trying to find out if anyone has factual data as what (if anything) has changed other than "no oil"

I will make my own decision on what bullet to use based on what info I can gain here and other threads.

I knew going in this was gonna be "touchy"-- and so far I feel its being kept civil--- if it gets off course ill be the first to ask mods to lock or delete as I don't want to see that happen.

Thanks again, look forward to more data good or bad yet civil

If the guys at hammer bullets or fordy or b.b. would like to confirm or deny anything that would be fine, but I totally understand them staying out of this thread too
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

J
Question on Badlands bullets
2
Replies
25
Views
4K
MOA or bust
MOA or bust
R
New member question on bullet selection
Replies
4
Views
2K
runshort
R
R
Question on boattail and flatbase bullets
2
Replies
16
Views
4K
BergerFan222
B
O
Newbie question on reloading
Replies
4
Views
2K
tom baker
T
D
Newbie question on Matchkings
Replies
2
Views
1K
kevral
K

Recent Posts

Back
Top