Hey BignGreen, You have probably gotten too many questions on these, but hey you're knowledgeable. Anyway, I have a Vanguard series 2 in 270wsm and have been using the Berger 140's and am interested in moving up to the matrix 165's. The twist in this factory rig is 1-10 @ 24" and no muzzle brake. I can shoot 1/2moa with the 140 bergers, and I see you shoot the 165's in a similar twist rate and they stabilize fine. Can you share your load data? I have RL 17 & 22, H1000 and IMR4831. I use Norma cases and either Fed M215 or CCI250. You can PM me if you would prefer. Thanks again. Chris