Proof Barrels And Shermans.....WOW !

[Mike D Texas]

Since you mentioned Pre fit specifically here are a couple. I don't run prefits so I have no experience with them.

X Caliber Carbon Prefits

Carbon Six Prefit

Proof Research Carbon Prefit

 

[VLD Pilot]

In a carbon? Link plz.

XCaliber carbon barrels. Their Carbon barrels are much cheaper. Pretty impressive barrels also.

 

[orkan]

So it looks like x-caliber equally configured would be $685, and a carbon six has literally ONE barrel in stock... but when using their barrel configurator, would be $790 to get one equally configured. (and I can't tell if that's including the $75 reamer rental on the prefit option. Honestly I didn't think xcalibers were that cheap.

So with proof being found from some vendors at just a bit over $800... I wouldn't call them expensive compared to their competitors. Considering Bartlein, Benchmark, and others will be well over $1050... this means at most, proof is in the middle of the road on price. Anyone calling them expensive, is probably not experienced in the higher end. My calling them cheap was clearly not right either, which makes sense because we deal with the high end, not the low end.

Tell you what proof wins at, almost every single time; availability. If you absolutely need a barrel, and you're short on time... someone somewhere has a proof you can buy. That's an accomplishment in todays world.

 

[VLD Pilot]

So it looks like x-caliber equally configured would be $685, and a carbon six has literally ONE barrel in stock... but when using their barrel configurator, would be $790 to get one equally configured. (and I can't tell if that's including the $75 reamer rental on the prefit option. Honestly I didn't think xcalibers were that cheap.

So with proof being found from some vendors at just a bit over $800... I wouldn't call them expensive compared to their competitors. Considering Bartlein, Benchmark, and others will be well over $1050... this means at most, proof is in the middle of the road on price. Anyone calling them expensive, is probably not experienced in the higher end. My calling them cheap was clearly not right either, which makes sense because we deal with the high end, not the low end.

Tell you what proof wins at, almost every single time; availability. If you absolutely need a barrel, and you're short on time... someone somewhere has a proof you can buy. That's an accomplishment in todays world.

Ordered a 308/9 Twist lightweight from XCaliber a couple months ago. Threaded muzzle. 590.00 OTD. They had a 10 or 15% off sale. Decent price.

 

[muzzletalk]

My point was most Proof barrels I see at retailers runs anywhere from $710 up to $850.

I don't know where it if you can buy Benchmark carbon barrels but there are certainly cheaper options than Proof.

They are around the same price point ($730). I agree completely. Proof is marketed as a premium barrel.

 

[LTH181818]

Since you mentioned Pre fit specifically here are a couple. I don't run prefits so I have no experience with them.

X Caliber Carbon Prefits

Carbon Six Prefit

Proof Research Carbon Prefit

Threading and Chambering is bread and butter work for many smiths. High volume shooters that may buy 3 or 4 barrels a year save money by Pre fits.
Proof Pre fits are very competitively priced. I think most hunters are great with .3's ~ groups, or speeds slower than others. They buy them because they shoot more consistently compared to other 2.75 pound barrels.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Threading and Chambering is bread and butter work for many smiths. High volume shooters that may buy 3 or 4 barrels a year save money by Pre fits.
Proof Pre fits are very competitively priced. I think most hunters are great with .3's ~ groups, or speeds slower than others. They buy them because they shoot more consistently compared to other 2.75 pound barrels.

Proofs are less expensive than the CFW Bartleins. Wouldn't say there in different price points like the X Calibers but a slight difference apart. I'll be ordering a CFW Benchmark for my next build. I think they are more expensive than Bartleins. They make very good barrels also.

 

[Mark37082]

Growing pains can have a some negatives but also can have some positives. I don't know what CF barrel sales volume is by Manufacturers, but Proof has to be near the top. I just did a quick search on RHR and Proof, Bartlein,and Benchmark were all within a few $$. Barrel supply is the quickest part of a build right now.

Proofs are less expensive than the CFW Bartleins. Wouldn't say there in different price points like the X Calibers but a slight difference apart. I'll be ordering a CFW Benchmark for my next build. I think they are more expensive than Bartleins. They make very good barrels also.

 

[bigngreen]

I'm going with the Benchmark carbon next time I use carbon, a couple of my best barrels are Benchmark but they did have a bad run of barrels too and I haven't used one since that started trickling out, by all accounts they are back quality.
The X Caliber is tempting but they had so many utter donkeys in the begining I really struggle with just the thought, they seemed to shoot but dimensionally the worst barrels I ever seen, but all a company needs it to higher someone who has high expectations for their product and it will turn a lot around!!
Lilja had a streak there that almost cost me serious injury, way high pressure spikes but from the sounds of it that got sorted out too.
The biggest thing to me is if a barrel maker looks at the barrel and says "yep, our bad" I'm all good, the best way to move on from issues is to solve them and move one not deflect and blame anything but their product. They know exactly the percentage of barrels are to tight by their own admission, the number of barrels I know of they've replaced, all none Sherman's, if it was a cost effective issue to fix they would do it.

I do find it interesting how many smiths really like the steel proof but won't use the carbon, obviously they are capable of great barrels, with the prices they've come down to I'm willing to bet there is a process like an extra heat treat that is being skipped and I'm betting it's a calculated risk they are willing to take, replace a few tight barrels vs an extra step on all barrels equals higher production lower in input. Unfortunately Sherman's are being chambered at a rate that ADG and Hornady can't keep up with dies and brass, and Proof has positioned themselves as a performance product which fits many Sherman builders, so I am betting it's a buzz kill so they've chosen how they will deal with it so has Rich it would seem. Lots of barrel option out there IMO.

 

[TXTrained]

Proof is in the Proof....Don't Buy a Proof.!
My friend bought a Proof and bore scoped it. Result- it looked like used barrel. RUST looking spot andsmall looking cracks.
It shot like crap.Proof sent him a new barrel.The 2nd barrel looked better .However it shot about like 1st one.

And for a second version of that watch KotaBoy32 on youtube about FULL MONTY vs El CHEAPO.. A Bear Creek Arms 6.5 Grendel beat out 2 Proof Barrels. Pretty much the same story too.

 

[TXTrained]

Growing pains can have a some negatives but also can have some positives. I don't know what CF barrel sales volume is by Manufacturers, but Proof has to be near the top. I just did a quick search on RHR and Proof, Bartlein,and Benchmark were all within a few $$. Barrel supply is the quickest part of a build right now.

I was looking at a print off I have of the 2020 600 yd Nationals.. Krieger barrels had 21 of the top 50 barrels. with BRUX having 12, and Bartlein with 9. The rest had 2 or 3 respectfully. On actions BAT had 30p of top 50..Thoise are some eye opening numbers.
\

 

[Raffy]

My best guess is the carbon wrapping and lapping are two likely suspects

Rich, are you seeing this specifically with carbon wrapped barrels only or with both ss and cfw barrels?

 

[LongRange338]

If it's plain as day, a lot of members on this Forum remain uninformed. Does Proof promote their barrels as having tight bores for purposes of improved precision. I've not seen it if they do.

I know of very few long range hunters that say that don't place some premium on muzzle velocity. Actually, I don't know any that wouldn't take some additional velocity, provided precision was maintained, for the downrange performance improvements that higher MV provides.

Perhaps you hunt at closer ranges. So don't appreciate the additional MV.

Proof thinking they'll strictly lose Sherman shooters would be wishful thinking, at best. Tighter than necessary bores reduce MV, no matter the cartridge chambering.

All in all, I read your post a couple times now, but can't follow the logic.

What I'm trying to say is that Proof does have a problem with tight bores (and the issues that go along with it). But I believe the larger issue is a group of buyers who are overly fixated on velocity at all costs. I don't run a Sherman myself so I don't have first hand experience but have 3 or 4 fellow shooters who rave about them. I absolutely guarantee they are running overpressure for the velocities they are stating their rigs produce. Most are new reloaders and have no previous experience with wildcats. With no standardized load data and no way to check pressures, the internet is the Wild Wild West for anybody foolish enough to not double check their data.
Proof appears to have decided that trying to please the velocity obsessed crowd is not worth the effort. Were I in their shoes I might feel the same.

 

[muzzletalk]

What I'm trying to say is that Proof does have a problem with tight bores (and the issues that go along with it). But I believe the larger issue is a group of buyers who are overly fixated on velocity at all costs. I don't run a Sherman myself so I don't have first hand experience but have 3 or 4 fellow shooters who rave about them. I absolutely guarantee they are running overpressure for the velocities they are stating their rigs produce. Most are new reloaders and have no previous experience with wildcats. With no standardized load data and no way to check pressures, the internet is the Wild Wild West for anybody foolish enough to not double check their data.
Proof appears to have decided that trying to please the velocity obsessed crowd is not worth the effort. Were I in their shoes I might feel the same.

"But I believe the larger issue is a group of buyers who are overly fixated on velocity at all costs."

So is there also an issue with the Weatherby crowd? Maybe the 6.5 SAUM or 7 SAUM shooters? I think you misunderstand the concept of the Sherman cartridge. You certainly misunderstand the people. The majority of the Sherman shooters look at the efficiency in the cartridge. Especially the efficiency to run a true short action in the SS line to compete with the larger powder draining magnums.

"Most are new reloaders and have no previous experience with wildcats."
Where exactly are you getting your information from??? You say you don't own a Sherman so I assume you don't follow the Sherman crowd.

Shermans are a wildcat cartridge. As such, they take more experience and knowledge to reload. This is not any different than any other wildcat cartridge. When I started shooting 6GT, I didn't even have the brass to shoot without forming it. I formed brass off of a chamber print, however, I've been handloading for some time now. I don't think I'd advise anyone new to reloading to jump into a wildcat of any kind.

Proof has already admitted to Rich that they have some issues they are working through and here you are placing blame on the shooters with inaccurate statements and unsupported opinions. I do not think it's to much to ask for a company to be held accountable for their products.