problems!

[Nounan]

So I am kinda new to all this and looking for advice/help. I have a rem 700 sps 300 win mag. Glass bed the stock and added more of the hardening to the entire inside of the stock to add regidity. Lightened trigger and put on the vortex viper pst ffp 6x24x50. I handload my rounds and have it Zeroed at 200. My problem is when trying to shoot further away I currently can only raise 40 clicks in elevation. Which only allows me to get to around 680 yards. I want to get to 1000. So how do I fix this? My only thought was to change my rings from medium height to low and re zero and take out some shims in the turrets. Is all this necessary?

 

[FearNoWind]

Something wrong somewhere. If you have the MOA reticle, 40 clicks on that scope should only be 10 MOA .... You should have 65 MOA in each direction from center on that scope (more like 260 clicks)
Add a 20 MOA rail and mount the scope on that.

Be sure to bed the rail:

Be careful adding too much hardener when bedding. Some bedding material gets pretty brittle when it has too much hardener in the mix.

... Lightened trigger ...

Hmmmm !!! Not always a good thing.

 

[bruce_ventura]

So I am kinda new to all this and looking for advice/help. I have a rem 700 sps 300 win mag. Glass bed the stock and added more of the hardening to the entire inside of the stock to add regidity. Lightened trigger and put on the vortex viper pst ffp 6x24x50. I handload my rounds and have it Zeroed at 200. My problem is when trying to shoot further away I currently can only raise 40 clicks in elevation. Which only allows me to get to around 680 yards. I want to get to 1000. So how do I fix this? My only thought was to change my rings from medium height to low and re zero and take out some shims in the turrets. Is all this necessary?

Changing to lower or higher rings does very little to the bullet drop, so don't bother. If you have shims under the turret then yes take them out. Next step is either a new base with more MOA or Burris Signature Zee rings.

 

[Mikecr]

According to their site it has 65moa max elevation adjustment. That is TOTAL.
It being 1/4moa clicks, if the scope were setup centered it would have +/-32 moa * 4 = +/- 128clicks.
You must have mean't you run out at 40MOA of adjustment, which should really be expected without mounting bias(~20moa base or rings).

 

[Nounan]

I do have the Seekins rings and a Blackhawk Base. When I zeroed the scope, the manual says to get the turrets to reset to zero. zero the scope then take the turret off and put shims in and re mount the turret and that is the Zero stop point. So I am assuming that having to zero at 200 yards ate up the other 25 clicks in elevation that I would have had?????

 

[ohiohunter]

I do have the Seekins rings and a Blackhawk Base. When I zeroed the scope, the manual says to get the turrets to reset to zero. zero the scope then take the turret off and put shims in and re mount the turret and that is the Zero stop point. So I am assuming that having to zero at 200 yards ate up the other 25 clicks in elevation that I would have had?????

Your wording is very confusing CLICKS or INCHES? You have 65in of travel which is 260clicks. There is a big difference and is vital to diagnosing your problem. Its like inches and feet, they are not interchangeable.

Yes you will sacrifice some elevation when you are zeroed, everyone does. It would be very hard to put your 200yd zero at the absolute extreme of your elevation. With a 0 moa base you can expect to be near the middle of your glass at your zero so yes you are wasting approximately 33in of elevation right away. BUT 33in at 100yds, at 1000yds it is 330in. In your case it sounds like you've used 25in, not clicks, which leaves you with 40" to use.

Are you basing your information on your calculations? Or have you gone to the range and tried to shoot 1k? Every 100yds you increase the factor by one so 1in (4clicks)at 100yds is 10in(4clicks) at 1000yds.

 

[bruce_ventura]

Do us a favor. Please confirm gat you indeed reach the stop in the bullet up direction at about 40 clicks (not 40") from zero. With the shims out, how many clicks in the bullet down direction can you rotate before reaching the stop?

 

[Nounan]

Sorry guys for the confusion, Like I said I am a green horn.
So each time I move the turret one click, at 100 yards its .25" so 400 yards each movement/click up is a full inch not quarter inch. when at the range on Saturday I was using the shooter app and have my zero set at 200. I wanted to shoot at the 600 yard target so looking at the app it says I need to go up 30 clicks thus each "click" at 600 would equal 1.5 inches so moving me up 45 inches total. shooting here I was still hitting 8 inches low. this I attributed to not having the app totally figured out. I then shot for the 700. which says on the app to go up in elevation 40 "clicks" from my original zero so I did this and was still hitting very low. I went to adjust it up more and the turret would not go any higher/ no more clicks. does this make sense as to what I am saying? I can add pictures of the Zero position and the stopping point on the turret if needed?

 

[FearNoWind]

Well, Nounan, don't get discouraged with what may sometimes appear to be impatient remarks; they are not intended that way. It's not always easy to convey a message in these forums that is both informative and compastionate.

Your last comments are certainly a better explanation. I'm more confident now that you do understand how the scope adjustments work. To say that you zeroed the scope at 200 yards and are getting the results you describibe leads me to believe that the scope may not have been "zeroed" at center before you started making the initial adjustments at 200 yards or that you're so close to the edge of the scopes adjustment that your target view is somewhat distorted. ??????
I'm assuming you have an MOA reticle ...
Turn your elevation knob to the stop at either end of its range of travel. You'll feel lt stop, don't force it. Turn it in the opposite direction for a total of 32 MOA (should be 130 clicks - but use the turret markings to keep track cuz meticulously counting 130 clicks is a lot of stress ) Now your horizontal adjustment should be centered ("zeroed") in the scope tube. Sight it in for your 200 yard range - if that's what you like - and make notes of how much adjustment (how many clicks) you have to make from the previously set center to achieve that objective.
Subtract that number from your total of 130 clicks and you'll know how much you have left in that direction.
It's inadvisable to run your scope adjustments to their extremes. The closer you get to the edge of the glass with the cross hairs the more distorted your image will be. IMO, it's best to stay within 75% of the range of adjustment (less if possible) so I wouldn't count on any more than 24 - 25 MOA of usable adjustment in your scope. That's just my opinion; you are welcome to form your own.
I stand by my first recommendation to install a 20 MOA rail, sight it in at 200 yards (which should bring you pretty close to the advisable lower extreme limit) and go from there. My 1K competition rifles are all equiped with 20 MOA rails. The modest amount of distortion I may experience at the bottom end (frankly I don't see any) will only affect a shot at the 100 - 200 yard range. Not enough to make a lot of difference. But my long range images, nearer the center of the optical focal point, will not suffer and that's where they're most important.
One more thing ... If you don't have a set of Burris Zee Rings with inserts you've missed something very well designed to solve a myriad of sighting issues.

 

[7magcreedmoor]

We were all greenhorns once, welcome aboard! From your description of the problem, I am betting the outside contour of your receiver is a little off spec, which gives you the effect of a "reverse" canted rail. Put it to the test this way: pull the scope, then remove the base screws from the back end of the rail. Betcha there is a tiny gap under the rail. If this is the case, when you tighten the rear screws it pulls the back of the rail down, tilting it the wrong way. To fix this, bed the back end of the rail to fill the gap. With 65MOA of internal adjustment, and a properly aligned rail, reaching 1000 yards should be no problem. You don't give details on your load, but I am guessing that somewhere between 22 and 28 MOA from your zero is in the neighborhood for 1K. If you are using a 0 MOA rail, you can switch to Burris Zee Posi-lign rings and get some lift with the offset inserts. I have two rifles, one with a flat (0MOA) rail, and one with a +20MOA rail and use the Burris rings on both. The one with the "flat" rail will shoot well past 1K yards. On my latest build with the 20moa rail my 200 yard zero is only 13MOA off the mechanical bottom of the scope, which lets me reach 1000 yards while in pretty much the middle of the adjustment range. Another advantage of the inserts is being able to zero the windage at or near the mechanical center as well.
Another tip: you're talking clicks and inches. Simplify your life from now on by doing all your thinking in minutes, without the conversions. Print your drop charts in MOA, dial MOA on the turret. When spotting your hits, measure MOA with the reticle, dial the correction, re-engage. You will process the information faster and more naturally by eliminating all that arithmetic. Good luck and good shooting.

 

[Nounan]

Thanks for the help guys! I will tinker with it this week and see how it works. this last weekend I was just shooting some factory loads but what I usually shoot is the Barnes 175gr LRX bullet at around 3120 fps. So I had someone sell me on the seekins rings cause they are CNC machined to be like amazing on top of amazing. but looking at the Burris rings it looks like I could have saved money? Also I am(kinda off topic but while I have your attention) in the market for a good range finder, one that will range an Elk out to 1000 yards. any suggestions?

 

[7magcreedmoor]

G7br2.

 

[ohiohunter]

Thanks for the help guys! I will tinker with it this week and see how it works. this last weekend I was just shooting some factory loads but what I usually shoot is the Barnes 175gr LRX bullet at around 3120 fps. So I had someone sell me on the seekins rings cause they are CNC machined to be like amazing on top of amazing. but looking at the Burris rings it looks like I could have saved money?QUOTE]

Seekins rings are good, there is nothing wrong w/ your rings. I'd take them every day and twice on sunday over burris rings. Before you waste time on bedding your 0moa base, I'd look into getting a 20moa base especially b/c you have medium to long range in mind. Check out egw, quality and value.

Are you in a lead free zone? Curious about the barnes, I like them, but not at long range. I feel they are balistically inferior.

 

[Nounan]

No I am in a state that allows pretty much everything, Just that from all my tests and actual hunting Barnes has been absolutely amazing! pretty much what their video say is exactly the performance I have gotten. however at 500-800 yards the TTSX would not open at all so after contacting them they told me of their "LRX bullets that are for long range hunting as the tip portion is not as strong thus allowing it to expand at lower velocities. plus they actually stay together. What hunting bullets are you using? Berger?
I am not sure what my base is if its 20 or zero MOA I just know its a blackhawk, for the rem model 700 long action. was wondering about what brand of base I will check it out and get on it. thanks again for the input!