RockyMtnUT
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No Hydrodynamic Shock Below 2600FPS??
- Thread starter ralphjunius
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Varmint Hunter
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The term "Hydrostatic Shock", whatever that means, has been around for a long time. In the early years it was my understanding that it meant the action of a high-speed bullet that sent a shock wave through fluid filled organs and caused a quick shut down of function. This may, or may not, have been true.
But ........ I can't disagree with Roy Weatherby who noted that hyper speed bullets incapacitated animals quicker. Assuming sufficient bullet mass and integrity, speed does seem to make a difference. Some of the slowest kills I've seen were with my muzzleloader. Yeah, the critters all sustained terminal injuries, but they were generally slower to die.
I doubt there is a cut-off line in velocity where anything above it causes quicker death from fluid moving shock and anything below it does not. I do believe, all things being equal, that increased velocity usually results in quicker incapacitation.
But ........ I can't disagree with Roy Weatherby who noted that hyper speed bullets incapacitated animals quicker. Assuming sufficient bullet mass and integrity, speed does seem to make a difference. Some of the slowest kills I've seen were with my muzzleloader. Yeah, the critters all sustained terminal injuries, but they were generally slower to die.
I doubt there is a cut-off line in velocity where anything above it causes quicker death from fluid moving shock and anything below it does not. I do believe, all things being equal, that increased velocity usually results in quicker incapacitation.
What would you say killed this pronghorn?
I've seen a 7mm rem mag with a 140gr class bullet light switch a deer hit in the hind quarter. That bullet was cruising, and didn't exit. Deer bang/flopped just like the pronghorn above. I'd submit that is a strange and unusual result... but I can't explain it any other way than shock.
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Jon Bischof
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I would hazard to guess that a bullet killed him.
RockyMtnUT
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xsn10s
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Obviously a Creedmoor. It's very efficient.
MagnumManiac
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Without an investigation into the animals body cavity/spine then it is speculation.
Have seen a similar result at between 400-500mtr on a small fallow deer….the resultant kill was from a piece of jacket that penetrated the spinal cord and another that sliced the abdominal arteries.
Shock was not the cause.
Cheers.
James DeTorre
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Like critical thinking!
Ckleeves
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If guys actually read the article I believe the OP is referring to it would make a whole lot more sense. I'm assuming it's this one by Nathan Foster?
Effective Game Killing
Effective game killing- How bullets kill and where to aim to ensure a fast clean kill.
www.ballisticstudies.com
Nothing hit the spinal column. Bullet passed through both lungs just above the heart.
xsn10s
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That's what I'm assuming. But since the OP hasn't been on since yesterday it's only an assumption. I don't want to quote Samuel L. Jackson about "assumptions".
That pronghorn doesn't move much after it was hit...but it was still alive til the brain and heart quit functioning....
I've shot a deer that had fallen just like that...with an arrow...spinal shot...made a couple screaming bleats....dead...
Shot an elk thru the heart at 10 yds with an arrow...that bull walked across the cat trail and fell dead in the hole left by a tree that had been blown over....dead in 10 seconds or less.....no twitches....
Just dead....
I've shot a deer that had fallen just like that...with an arrow...spinal shot...made a couple screaming bleats....dead...
Shot an elk thru the heart at 10 yds with an arrow...that bull walked across the cat trail and fell dead in the hole left by a tree that had been blown over....dead in 10 seconds or less.....no twitches....
Just dead....
Ckleeves
Well-Known Member
Yes I'm certainly assuming which is why I said "I'm assuming". But it's the only thing I could find that gives a velocity parameter on hydrostatic shock.
I center ribbed an 1,100lb brown bear, broadside, just behind both shoulder muscles. The boar collapsed, and never so much as a quiver. Never saw a muscle twitch.
I thought my rifle may have lost its zero. Suspecting I may have brained him. But even brained animals will often display muscle movement.
Bullet hit exactly where I was aiming. No exit on offside ribs. I opened the internal chest cavity to search for the bullet the following day, by slicing through the diaphram Never saw any bullet impacts on the offside inner ribcage. I gave up at that point, as the animal was massive, and I woulda needed to crawl in there up to my shoulders. Or get a chain saw.
All that to say, I believe even a very LARGE animal's nervous system can be shut down instantly, if enough energy is unleashed internally and within a short enough time span. My bear dropped hard like a wrecking ball, created a depression in the 2.5 foot of snowpack, and no further motion.
There are countless similar stories of deer-sized game being pancaked with high velocity .224s, and broadside center of rib shots. No CNS impacts. I've done it myself with a 338 Win Mag to the ribs of a whitetail deer.
Decades ago, author Jim Carmichael wrote an article describing 30-06 bullets fired into western bison. This was an organized, controlled test/study. Only broadside center of rib shots. Shot placement purposely avoided the CNS. Most animals ran after bullet impact. Then eventually fell over and died. However several of the bison dropped as if struck by lightning.
Veterinarians were present and performed necropsies on the carcasses. Each bison that dropped dead upon bullet impact was found to have massive hemorrhaging within their brain. Their best hypothesis to explain the instant death of those bison was that the bullet energy created a pressure pulse, sufficient to rupture blood vessels/arteries in the brain. They speculated that the bullet-caused pressure spike may have coincided with the animals systolic (high) arterial pressure, increasing pressure even more, and bursting vessels/arteries in the brain.
I have no doubt that sufficient bullet energy unleashed center of chest (forward of the diaphram) can overcome an animal's physiology. By no means 100% of the time. But often enough that there's no other plausible explanation, other than the animal was shocked to death by an overwhelming burst of energy.
