New rifle...... Flinching

Ksark

New Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Wa
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
I would definitely recommend a suppressor. So much more enjoyable to shoot.
 

SammySTW

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
232
Location
Georgia
The rifle doesn't kick bad with the brake. And I'm liking the 2000 + ft lbs of kinetic energy at 1000 yards.
a 28 Nosler or 7 STW will get you over 1600 ft lbs at 1000 yards shooting a 180 gr bullet. It will be much more pleasant to shoot, you won't flinch as bad, and you will make better shots. If you don't like 7mm, then one of the magnum 30s will do the same thing with a 210+ gr. bullets. 338s are great for big animals, but they're not easy to shoot well for most people, especially the 378. A lower energy bullet into the vitals is better than a high energy bullet into the guts.
 

Jeffrey Van Zandt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
499
Location
tok
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
it is you dry fire, dry fire range time a 300 win will do elk moose at 1000 but only in the hands of a good rifle men you can buy your way in to long range gear but it will not make you a long range shooter till you train 1000-1500 rounds and you can put hits on your steel and big just big cal rifles arr not always the ans
 

PNWdude67

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
177
Location
Ridgefield WA
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
This is the long term equipment solution. I shoot a far amount, not 300 rum but 7 short mag with 190s. First, consider reloading as tuning your load with high BC bullets and a slower burn rate powder, while sacrificing some velocity for accuracy and comfort does make a difference in felt recoil. I recently shot a two day match with 190 grain bullets and it was very pleasant. Second, not all muzzle brakes are created equally. Some reduce recoil and muzzle jump but increase felt concussion and blast to the shooters face. I am sensitive to that and found two brakes that have been designed to reduce this. APA Gen 3 fat bastard and the Area 419 Sidewinder are very effective brakes. That said, the best device for recoil reduction and reducing or eliminating concussion is a suppressor. I know it sucks to acquire one, and I hesitated going through the process for several years. My humble advise is just do it and get the best one you can afford. I shot ever so matches suppressed and several braked. At the end of the day after 100 rounds down range I notice more fatigue, like my face is beat up or wind burned after shooting with any brake. With a suppressor I feel the same as if I had not fired a round all day. On video, I break shots and don’t bat an eye suppressed, with the brake there tends to be an instinctive blink more shots than not. I dry fire EVERY day and it surely helps with trigger timing abs breaking the shot, but nobody likes getting punched in the face and I still have to fight the flinch reflex when live firing. One training method to really see how bad your flinch condition is is have random dummy rounds loaded in you box of ammo so you never know if it’s hot or not. Occasionally doing this training method has helped me. All that said the BEST mechanical add on solution for “the flinch” is a suppressor imo. (If it’s allowed in your state)
 

Zuma

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
24
Location
El Paso Texas
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
My question is: why would you take a shot at any animal at 1000 yards. Stalk in or call it to you and make an accurate shot at under 400 yards. The risk at 1000 yards is a wounded animal that can suffer for days. There is nothing macho in that.
As for recoil, yes the noise level of a brake can definitely cause flinching. You probably don’t want it on when hunting because you are not going feel any recoil when you take the shot.
 

PNWdude67

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
177
Location
Ridgefield WA
An effective muzzle brake remains the best device in the reduction of felt recoil and reduction of muzzle rise.

It might take time getting used to.
Brakes are great devices, the good ones are at least. However, for concussion imo it’s not the best, and concussion sensitivity causes the flinch. Suppressors adequately reduce recoil and muzzle rise with almost no concussion. There are brakes that have much less concussion on the shooter than others but If it is feasible a suppressor is the best solution imo. I would shoot with one exclusively if it weren’t for restrictions in certain states.
 

Tom Wright

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
45
Location
Florida
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
I think you may be experiencing several different issues. Some have been mentioned. First use double ear protection with a high quality electronic set of ear muffs. If it is the noise of the muzzle brake it should handle that. The second issue may be the bullet—just because you want to shoot a certain type/grain of bullet in a gun doesn’t mean it matches with the rifle/barrel. Some NEVER will shoot well! Also are you using a strong vise or rest as you are shooting? Just because you can shoot one gun off a certain rest or bipod doesn’t mean you can pick up a new rifle and do the same without putting lots of rounds down range. A dumb question—are you certain that your mounts/rings are torque down to specs? Another cause for erratic bullet patterns. Good luck!
 

FEENIX

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LRH Team Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
16,726
Location
Great Falls, MT
Brakes are great devices, the good ones are at least. However, for concussion imo it’s not the best, and concussion sensitivity causes the flinch. Suppressors adequately reduce recoil and muzzle rise with almost no concussion. There are brakes that have much less concussion on the shooter than others but If it is feasible a suppressor is the best solution imo. I would shoot with one exclusively if it weren’t for restrictions in certain states.
Suppressors as you noted reduces adequate felt recoil and muzzle rise. I too would shoot my suppressor as much as I can. I own various muzzle brakes and I do not experience or bothered by concussion.
 
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WeekendWarrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
57
Location
United States
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
So many have said their part, and everything I am about to say has already been said but I'll share my experience anyway. I shot a 270 win my whole life, got into big game and western hunting and wanted a bigger round so I bought a 300 win mag without a threaded barrel that would bruise my shoulder after shooting a box of ammo. Then I decided I wanted a muzzle brake and a heavier barrel for more accurate and to reduce the recoil so I bought a rifle with those features and I started jumping out of my seat every time I pulled the trigger. I could feel the blast from the brake hit me like a slap in the face, I would blink and pull my head back a little... after a few boxes of ammo this because anticipatory and I flinched bad - like shooting 7" groups at 100 yards kind of bad.

I consulted the internet and did all the drills people recommended like having someone randomly load or unload my rifle so I didn't know if I shooting a round or not... several 100 rounds of this stupidity later I gave up and started shooting my 300 win mag without the brake for some random reason, and after a box of ammo I was sub MOA and closing in on 0.5 MOA. Keep in mind, the rifle without the brake would literally jump after each shot and I'd have to reestablish my shooting posting each time I pulled the trigger, and despite this I was both precise and accurate.

It was at this point I realized my issue was not felt recoil but rather the blast from the brake. No fundamentals of shooting lecture will help you to get used to a constant high velocity cloud of hot gas and dust hitting your eyes - you are biologically programmed to blink and flinch when this happens. I doubled up my hearing protection, put on actual safety goggles so the blast stopped kicking dirt into my eyes, threw on a down vest and a carhart jacket overtop to reduce the concussion I felt, pulled my hat down over my eyes and scope, and pull the hood of my jacket over top of that... and I laid down prone behind my 300 win mag with the big brake and proceeded to shoot 0.5 MOA group after 0.5 MOA group. It was cathartic. I shot like this for several months just happy to shoot my rifle accurately.

... and then I bought a brake the didn't kick so much junk back at me, and its been fine since (even with standard ear/eye pro and a tee shirt). So the moral of this story is to buy more stuff. Its not you, its your gear. You just need more rifles and muzzle devices.
 

Samesaw

Active Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
25
I would work on some dry firing even in-between shots. Just work the fundamentals.
Consider having your buddy load the rifle and hand it to you. You will not know when he has an empty chamber waiting for you. This is an excellent way to buck your flinch
 

longgun505

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
59
Location
kalispell, MT
So I have been shooting practically my whole life. I consider myself a pretty fair shot. Last year I decided I wanna shoot farther. I'm hunting elk and I had been shooting 500 yards. Now I wanna shoot out to 1000 yards. Sounds simple right...??? Well I've got a huge education. Lol. So last year I started shooting with a good buddy who has been shooting long range for a while and he gets me hitting at 1000 pretty consistent. I was shooting a 300 RUM with 180 grain barnes bullets. After doing some research I see I'm shooting 775 ft lbs at 1000. I wanna be at least 1000 ft lbs. So I buy some 190 grain barnes LR bullets that's supposed to get me over the 1000 ft lbs. Problem is I haven't got a muzzle brake, so 180 grains have little recoil but 190's kick like a mule! I decided to buy a new rifle with a brake. I ordered a Weatherby 338-378. Sweet rifle! Now the problem is I am flinching BAD! The gun doesn't kick that bad, I think it's the brake messing with me. I never owned a gun with a brake before and it's different. With the price and availability of ammo I'm not sure what to do to quit wasting it. I can't even see what powder charge shoots best cause I can't shoot a group. Definitely not the gun it's just I'm a head case behind it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just not sure why I'm doing it. Anyone have any ideas or pointers to help me out? Anything is much appreciated.
Vais brakes are awesome and on ALL of our large call bangsticks. Short of a can (suppressor) your last alternative is adding weight to reduce that moment of inertia long enough to mitigate the recoil. Brakes are the way to go and I’ve tested tons of them over the decades. For my money, Vais beats them all for the size and amount of recoil reduction.
 

Chuckrub

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Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
134
Location
YW.
Dry fire a couple times then flip the safe on and do it again . You might just catch yourself anticipating the shot punching the trigger and grip strength change .
 

WYO300RUM

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Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
1,736
Location
Wyoming
I became friends with a gunsmith benchrest shooter many years ago. I had a 22-250 that he glass bedded and worked up an accurate load for. We shot it for group and I shot 5-6 inch group. He shot it and his group was less than an inch. He instructed me how to and as he was talking he chambered an empty case. When I pulled the trigger the gun clicked and jumped up from the front bag. My next lesson was to dry fire at target without flinching. Very difficult, even after hundreds of dry fires. He said never shoot off hand at moving target as almost no one can do that without flinching. Even with a 2 ounce trigger(which is easier to not flinch) I have to concentrate. I also have a 338-378 shooting 300 grn bullets and it has a brake. It weighs 56lbs and does not move at all when shooting. Even with that with 2 ounce trigger I have to concentrate not to flinch. The human body is programmed and it tightens up to accept the "punch" it knows is coming. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. Being aware of flinching, dry firing, light trigger and more weight helped me. When shooting "light guns" I wear shoulder pad and only shoot a few rounds to keep from flinching. I have light guns for hunting when walking but no longer enjoy shooting in that environment due to all of the above. Very few that wont flinch.
56 lbs. ? 😳
 
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