new rifle and scope


Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2002
Central Minnesota
I have a couple of questions on a new rifle and scope. Most of you know I plan to build a .408 and a .30-378 (changed to a 7.82 Warbird) but I was also thinking of having a rifle for a little shorter diestance. For shooting out to maybe 1000-1500 yards with a 7.82 Patriot, would you get a 2.6-12.2X or a 3.2-16X SN-3? Also for that distance what legnth barrel, 26 or 28 for use with a 190 grain J40? The last thing is, what zize objective and main tube do you guys think I should have? Rember I'm new to longer range shooting that you guys do so I'm trying to learn as much as possible.
Thank You
Maybe a Ruger 10/22 and a 30-30??

dear Nighthawk

that my last post for you because you don't seem to read what you write and read the answers to the question you have post .

to begin to shoot and start to learn no need to be the owner of THE RIFLE OF THE CENTURY in the AMAZING CALIBER OF THE YEAR

you purchase a simple SAVAGE TACTICAL in 308 or in 300 WIN MAG ( factory out of the box )or a REM SENDERO in same caliber a set of leupold QRW RING , a set of tapered base and a Leupold 6.5x20 LR and enought ammo or component to load ammo to get 500 first rounds .

whit this simple and available equipement ( not in terrific caliber or amazing caliber as Lazzeroni cartridge or 408 Cheyenne or something more costly if you can find more) you can easily shoot , learn to shoot by practice and after to have burn out your first barrel at 300/600 yards you can purchase another one always for your Savage or your REM , improve the rifle and start to shoot ( really ) at 1000 yards and over


for your knowledge a simple 22 rimfire shoot at 200 yards is closely the same as a 308 shoot at 1000 yards not to bad to learn .

and REMENBER that :
Never the fact to own a full race rifle will make of you the shooter of the year .
Most of the shooters on this forum shoot a lot ( without amazing calibers ) and are on this forum to learn more and share informations BUT not to explain their dream of their next future rifle plan to be built perhaps .....
Miss the target or make a group of the size of a cow with a $$$$$ costly rifle just make you RIDICULUS .

last point : it seems that the 300 ULTRA is the most popular caliber in 30 cal ( and one very good at long range ) on this forum so I don't understand why you want a 30.378 ( true over bore ) or now a Lazzeroni ( with costly Lazz brass ) if you sucess to read informations published on this forum and understand them you perhaps start to learn something .

that all

Good shooting if a day you stop to dream you can perhaps start to shoot .

Nighthawk i noticed that all the rifles you have/are building....whatever, are long range hard hitters. I know my 338UM will reach out and touch things at a fair distance but the recoil and muzzle blast is extream. I have a JP recoil eliminator and it makes the 300gr MK out of my 17# sendero seem extreamly mild but it is still a bit to shoot for a beginner. I too am new to the long range crowd and after getting my UM set up (i really needed a elk rifle) i relized i should have started in to long range with something smaller and cheaper. I think the next project i will do will be a 6.5-06. I have an old '06 i have always wanted to rebarrel and the 6.5 would give me the BC and speed for some long range varmit shooting. I am still love my UM but i cannot wait till i scrape the $$ for my next setup.

p.s. the rifles and scopes you have listed as projects are extreamly expensive I assume you have calculated the total cost of such a rig, ie.. dies, brass, bullets, powder reloading tools....?? In just the 408 i would put the total cost of the rifle in the $4000 - $5000 range, correct me if i am wrong i would like to some day build a large custom rig and am intrested in the cost.
dear JackRabbitSquare

the 6.5/06 is my favorite caliber / chambering for 1000/1200/1400 yards easy to shoot ( very mild recoil ) good bullets ( Lapua and Sierra ) good powder choice , rather good barrel life ( 1500 rounds ) , good case in 270 win ( RWS , Lapua or US manufacture sorted )
with barrel 30/32 inch lenght with 1 in 8 pitch there is nothing so near of the 6.5/284 in long action and so easy to shoot .

just need to trim case more often because shoulder angle is not sharp , 6.5/280 RCBS IMP design look very nice

I shoot
6.5 X
260 REM
6.5/08 AI
6.5x55 tight chamber
6.5/06 base 270 Win with 0.291 neck
6.5/284 Lapua brass with 0.295 neck
264 DTC PRESCOTT 0.291 neck ( 264 WIN mag with 35° shoulder setback on same body lenght as 264 Win )
6.5/300 WEA 0.295 neck , my new rifle in process just for fun and to shoot the miles .

enjoy 6.5 cal and real facts

Catshooter, check out this post in the "Ultra Long Range hunting" section titled.

"300 Baer"

In that post Nighthawk ask if the this caliber would be better for him???

My reply was almost identical to yours!!!!!

Listen Nighthawk, I never shot past 300 yards....and I am twice your age. I'm not ashamed, I'm here to learn.
I was once 18 also! Just get something you can afford. If you really could afford all that stuff you talk about you would not be joining the military at 18YO.
Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Two last things, I can afford to buy I US optics scope but I won't. It's not worth it. How many 1000yd pros use them?
Listen to what DC told you! It not a matter of money they are just not worth it for my needs. Spending the most money doesn't give you the best. (unless you own the NY Yankees)

Lastly, Go get two women and one motel room. spend the money you saved on the USO Scope! At 18 I think this is what you really need!!! ....and you already have the weapon!!!!!!!!

Happy Hunting

I'm gonna show my *** a bit here,, and let ya in on my personal expierence.

I started shooting 1K with a 308win, Leupold M3LR,, all factory stuff, nothing real fancy but nice. I do alright with it, but wind kicks my *** and so do the other shooters with high dollar rigs and higher BC bullets. So I went to a smith built 6.5x284 with a Nightforce to be more competitive.

Now,, that I have a couple winning matches behind me, I still don't feel the satisfaction I thought I would because it kinda feels like I bought my way in and didn't earn it.

We have a guy at the range, Gene "the man" Graham, who shoots a bone stock Savage 110TAC in 308 with a tasco 10X SS scope who usually shoots in the high 190's with an X count in the 8 to 10 range. I can't beat him with a 308 and have a hard time with a 6.5x284. He's a better shooter than I am, and knows his **** but refuses to spend the money needed to beat the high dollar rigs.

What's that have to do with your question? I guess not much, but having the better equipment doesn't make me a better shoter. It makes me lazy, and ultimatly hurts me as a competitor.

If you got the cash to build these sticks, great,, do it and have fun with them,, but don't think that buying your way to the top is gonna make you a better shooter.


PS. 1000 to 1500 yards is NOT medium distance. That's a long *** way mang,, no matter what you're shooting.

[ 09-14-2002: Message edited by: FatBoy... ]
Jeeze when I was 18.. I was happy with a hand me down 30-06.... That i tweeked on my own cause I couldn't afford the fees of a gunsmith. I remember buming brass off my dads friends for reloading ... Buying one box of primers was expensive for me .. and a box of bullets well... that was a major purchase!!!

I am on 35 now and have made some money but $5000 for a rig at 18..... slow down kid...

If you want a Tactical rifle to start, Look NO FURTHER than a 308 PSS or a 308 Sendero.... after you shoot 2000 rounds and begin to know your ****.. then spend some money ..... Unless you understand reloading the exotics are not fun to reload for.... and big cases mean big money spent on powder and those barrels burners will cost you another barrel before you really understand the cal.....
It is OK to dream but when your alarm goes off.. make sure your not in over your head.... This forum is hear to help .. PLease read these responses and do not be offended.. There are years and years of experience talking here ( not necessarily me ) it would be wise to take the advice....

Does your father hunt or shoot ????
I think you guys should forget everything I say because I don't know if I will be able to get onto this site anymore unless I can get on at school. The only computer that has the internes on it is at my dad's house (my parents are divorced) and my dad just had a massive heart attack, then he found out he had diabeties, then a stroke, then because of the stroke which was preventing him from breathing he had to have brain surgery to remove the portion of the brain that was killed by the stroke. Now I discover that because of the damage caused by the heart attack he has a hole in his heart that they can't do a fricken thing about. Due to the blood loss his kidneys are shutting down. From what I heard so far he has about a 99% chance of not making it out of the hospital. I believe it would take a miracle. These rifles that I speak of wouldn't happen for at least a year and I'm aware of the cost. I just ask about them now so I'm not trying to figure this all out later.
Best of luck to your father. A prayer for him tonight. There are far more important things than shooting, so be vigilant and let him know how you feel.

God's speed man.

Dear Nighthawk

first : best luck to your father and to your family .

second : as I have say :

to shoot 1000 yards no need of $$$$$ rifles , most shooters on this forum use very commun rifle with commun optic in very popular caliber .

start shooting with 1000 yards as first range is bit silly , best is to start on shorter range 300/600 , learn a lot ( wind , shooting position , reload , sighting , trigger control , recoil .... ) and go to the 1000 yards even if you can try yourself at 1000 yards and more just for fun .

last point : shooters are on this forum to share informations and answer to the questions of the other , you are always welcome but please go step by step and you are more a beginer than an expert so keep cool and use simple and easy way to reach your goal .

Nothing again you , but it is worth to have a dream broken so try to do that you are able to do rather to finish very dispointed and sad because in yearsss you will not sucess to get your $$$$$$$$$ rifles and that during this time you have make nothing except wait the rifle of your dream and shoot nothing .
There is no shame to start to shoot with a low cost entry price rifle as SAVAGE or REMINGTON even used and improve your equipement with the time and the money income ( remenber that a simple barrel in 408 cost more than a complete Savage tactical in 300 WIN MAG ) , but as I say in previous post a $$$$$ rifle not give you tight group at 1000 and more just because you are able to pay this rifle .

Good shooting

Nice dreem gun, and I hope your Dad is doing well. I'm a new commer to this sport. I'm starting out with a 270 winchester short mag. I know it's a light cal. BUT I hunt also and wanted a flat shooter. Ground hogs!!!
It still gets out there to 1000 yards with athority. Last time I shot I got 1 In the Xed out circle and one in the 10 ring. The others were all over the place one even went off paper imagen that!!!Hopfuly next time I'll have all ten on paper. Haven FUN is part of the game.
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