NEED Explanations HELP !!!???!!!!

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by *WyoWhisper*, Jan 8, 2004.

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  1. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    I'm calling 4mesh063 out on this.. maybe it is me and I just don't get it.. but I need input and help from the rest of ya...

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Yes, I'm here to tell you that it won't affect the group size. You have no time to look at the flags and if you do, YOU are the reason the group got bigger. You cannot help your group at 1K. You may help score slightly, definitely not group. You simply cannot SEE changes as I said above.

    Wind conditions changing do not affect group size!.. Can someone explain this???
    So I am wrong in thinking that..
    on my first shot first string at 1K I have a 5mph wind at the muzzle and a 10 mph wind at second shot I have a 10 mph wind at muzzle and 5 mph wind at target. This switches like this the entire 10 shots.

    My next string I have a constant 5 mph wind.. so both groups in essence will be the same??

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> IF you have a gun that you need to search for the magic load, throw the @#$er in the river and get another one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    so.. any powder bullet combination will work or the gun is crap??

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> If you have an honest 1/2" gun at 100 yards, honestly, with a good bullet, no better no worse, I'd be surprised to see it keep 10 shots in the scoring rings at 1K (about 30"). If my gun shot 1/2" at 100, I'd throw it away, or fix something. My factory gun does that on a good day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    soooooo the 300WSM can't keep 10 in 30" at 1K... common.. tell me this was all to *Rule 4 Violation* me off!!!! I'd feel better knowing someones trying to *Rule 4 Violation* me off.. at least I wouldn't think I was crazy....
  2. LDO

    LDO Well-Known Member

    Sep 23, 2003
    lol-some1 is full of crap
  3. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

    Jan 6, 2003
    I dont remember reading that anywhere, but it is as funny as crap!!
  4. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Well-Known Member

    Jun 13, 2007

    I can answer part of it. We try to shoot in one condition, if we do not you are right wind will play hell with groups.

    We do that by being either a "runner" or "picker" with about 80-90% runners.

    Both will zero as quickly as possible and then wait. Both will take shots about every and note how far movement is, and normally take last sighter at 15-30 seconds and make any last minute zero changes to put him in x 1-2 minutes in any switching wind conditionsring. Runner will have his 5 or 10 bullets for record are laid out and at end of siter round, you normally go to record within 15-30 seconds of end of siter period.

    Runner will fire all all rounds as quickly as possible, 20 seconds to 1-2 minutes max. Idea is to get all off in one condition whatever it is. That is where he talking about not worrying about the wind changes. Some never look at flags at all once record fire starts. That allows quickest way to get all shots off, but you run risk of wind change pushing 1-2 out. Now many guys will keep an eye on wind and only stop if major change takes place. If it does, you have two choices, stop and wait to see if their condition comes back and others choose to hold off based on their experience with siter shots.

    Picker watches each shot and wind conditions for each. Might hold different areas for each shot. Not many do this for obvious reasons.

    Saw 10 yr old boy wait over 7 minutes out of 10 minute record time, after record fire started without picking up his gun. He saw wind shift 180 in between siter and record. Wind did 180 back to original direction, he then shot 5 rounds from 300 Weatherby improved under 30 seconds for 3.3" group and perfect 50 score.

    Group is more important than score, so most shoot for group and less wind reading. Right conditions you catch both right and shoot all in 10 ring with small group. As a general rule, runners will shoot tightest groups.

    Relay winners go up against each other in shootoffs. Group winners win for smallest group no matter where it is on paper so they try to shoot as fast as possible. Score shooters do not care about group size so tend to watch wind more as a 10 is still a 10 no matter where in the ring it is.

    As for magic loads, most of these guns will shoot consistently in the .02s and some less, which if you do everything right, means you will consistently be about 4-6" at 1000 in a perfect world. We all know that does not happen most of the time, occassionally and if you happen to be able to keep it consistently tuned to conditions. Most people will use the rule of thumb that says most uniform and consistent 100yd group size muliply by 10 and then 2 for average 1000 yard group. Example if gun shoots average of .025 at 100 then 10x equals 2.5 inch x 2 for average of 5" group at 1000. Can you beat that yes, can you do worse yes. All depends on day and conditions. If I site in during open sky and cloud goes over during record fire, that that one bullet fired during shade will go out of the group by 2-6" just from different light conditions and where you optically see the bullseye.

    we could have whole other discussion on grouping at 100 versus 1000 and why it correlates or in some cases does not for the load, but it is a fact that it works that way some times.


    [ 01-08-2004: Message edited by: BountyHunter ]
  5. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    Ya know what...

    I'm done with this guy... I've seen the light..

    rant off .. out...
  6. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Jan 14, 2004

    I WOULD like to hear why there is/isnot a correlation between groups at different distances, and why bullets will/willnot be stabilized at different distances.