Least fussy mono-metal bullet?

[FEENIX]

The harder alloys have more engraving pressure and will hit max pressure before a softer alloy. I think the Cayugas have a bore rider like the Cutting Edge Bullets do, CEB calls it a "Seal Tite Band", not sure if they have relief cuts in the bearing surface. I think it comes down to the Hammers having less bearing surface and being softer, more like lead, that yields higher velocities via less friction than a comparable hard alloy bullet. You will have to add more powder to get that speed though, almost like it was a lighter bullet. It is similar to the concept of the Absolute Hammer line.....less friction and more speed.

Which of these loads will go faster out of a .300 WSM?

(1) Cayuga 178 with 60 RL-17, 215M, .010" off the lands, Win brass

or

(2) Absolute Hammer 178 with 60 RL-17, 215M, .010" off the lands, Win brass

 

[FEENIX]

The PVA's have a very, very short bearing surface, and you can get them screaming fast. In a 24" supressed 7 mag we are running the 151 at 3390 fps, and first pressure signs didn't show up until way, way faster than that in the form of lightly increased bolt lift and a faint ejector mark. We are also running a 127 Cayuga at 3425 fps from a 25" .270 Sherman, also a good bit under any pressure signs. I got the 170 7mm Cayuga up to 2970ish fps before any pressure signs at all from a 20" 7 Sherman Max. Getting accuracy from these bullets has been easy and forgiving for me.

In my experience hammer bullets are much the same. You get faster velocities than a comparable c&c bullet just like the PVA's, and accuracy is very easy to achieve.

The Badlands bullets, from my testing, seem to reach the same velocities as c&c bullets, but not exceed them. The first gen bullets are a harder alloy than the others mentioned, as stated from the owner George "the hardest available", and while my elk had very strange results, all the other animals I shot with them performed very well and did extensive damage. This year I tried the gen 2 SBD's, and they have done really good in a .270 Sherman and took 1 pronghorn in my .338 Norma. The SBDII's seem to be a little more picky as far as finding good accuracy, but I have only loaded them in 2 guns so far. One thing to consider, is with these bullets, you generally reach pressure with less powder than a c&c of the same weight. Thus, you can consider slower burning powders than you would usually consider for a given bullet weight. I'm using RL26 in a .270 Sherman with the 140 SBDII, and there is significant room left in the case. I may even try a powder like N570. As far as the copper alloy being used in these gen II's, I do not know, but they do seem to be doing more damage than the gen I's did. This is only from 7 animals so far, so it is far too early for me to make a judgment.

I have not used Barnes and do not intend to.

I have not tried cutting edge bullets, I may try them one day.

I am glad you chimed in. You just confirmed Cayugas' and Badlands' ability to be pushed at a faster velocity.

 

[kevinmorgan]

I'm surprised that Butterbean hasn't chimed in on this.

 

[Benman73]

Hey fellas, for those that shoot mono-metals exclusively; have you found a particular brand that isn't fussy when working up a load?

Yeah, broad-ish question; just needed to test the waters if those pills from PVA/Hammer/Badlands/Barnes etc where favored more over another.

Preface, looking to build a lighter weight 6.5PRC for using in a non-lead state (hint) and 24" tube.

I have loaded some TSX years back but had troubles getting the rifle to like the bullet.

Thanks!

I've had great luck with Maker Bullets. Every different one I tried shot very accurately out of my 308 and 300 BLK, and with hardly any load workup. Tiny groups across the board. Also had a very easy time with the 130 Shock Hammers recently. If these new mono's weren't so expensive I would forgo lead altogether and use mono's for banging steel.

 

[highdrum]

Which of these loads will go faster out of a .300 WSM?

(1) Cayuga 178 with 60 RL-17, 215M, .010" off the lands, Win brass

or

(2) Absolute Hammer 178 with 60 RL-17, 215M, .010" off the lands, Win brass

I tried 178 Cayuga vs 181HH and it took a lot more powder to reach same speed with the Cayuga vs the HH, that tells me the Cayuga creates less pressure. I went up to 3180fps in a 22" 300wsm using rl26. Long throated chamber, both were showing pressure signs at the end. The 178 shot way better than the 181. This is in a 9tw barrel.

 

[highdrum]

I do feel that pva should go with a slightly softer grade of copper and possibly drill the hollow point slightly larger and a lil deeper for reliable expansion. But every grain of weight you cut out the nose, BC will start dropping quickly. Josh designed these to run fast and have good bc. The 151 7mm is a beast, I had em running 3430fps from a 7max accurate too but was getting light ejector marks, next node down was 3320fps.

 

[Thebear_78]

I have been extremely impressed with the hammer hunter 124gr in my Seekins havak 6.5 PRC. Incredibly easy to find an accurate load and terminal performance has been great. 4 animals taken this year. Two caribou and two white tails. Each time caliber entrance and 1.5" exit. Lungs scrambled in each case. Quick kills and once 30 foot easy to follow blood trail.

 

[Hard rock]

Which of these loads will go faster out of a .300 WSM?

(1) Cayuga 178 with 60 RL-17, 215M, .010" off the lands, Win brass

or

(2) Absolute Hammer 178 with 60 RL-17, 215M, .010" off the lands, Win

The question is which Mono is the least fussy if there was a vote forum on which one my bets would be on the Hammers like always when someone brags on the Hammers here we go again good luck OP on you finding a good Mono I found mine another plus the owners will personally help you with a recommended bullet and powder if your in need of advice they are great folks too deal with

 

[FEENIX]

The question is which Mono is the least fussy if there was a vote forum on which one my bets would be on the Hammers like always when someone brags on the Hammers here we go again good luck OP on you finding a good Mono I found mine another plus the owners will personally help you with a recommended bullet and powder if your in need of advice they are great folks too deal with

You are correct about the OP's question, but there's an unsubstantiated claim that the OP needs to know to make a sound decision. My comment above has nothing to do with customer service but instead getting a clarification. Thankfully, @codyadams and @highdrum provided real-world experience responses. I am glad you found your bullet of choice, but the @Totoro has to synthesize all the presented information and the ultimate decision. There is no need to be defensive; we are all here to learn and share information/knowledge and experiences. Having choices, choices, and choices is excellent. Cheers!

 

[Hard rock]

You are correct about the OP's question, but there's an unsubstantiated claim that the OP needs to know to make a sound decision. My comment above has nothing to do with customer service but instead getting a clarification. Thankfully, @codyadams and @highdrum provided real-world experience responses. I am glad you found your bullet of choice, but the @Totoro has to synthesize all the presented information and the ultimate decision. There is no need to be defensive; we are all here to learn and share information/knowledge and experiences. Having choices, choices, and choices is excellent. Cheers!

Not being defensive like I said Here we go again nothing personal you can't compare velocity and bullets the way you posted we all know that the absolute Hammers usually require a faster powder and more of it and get as much as 150 too 200 fps more vel than the Hammer Hunters I've done my homework on the Hammers they are a different animal and a experienced hand loader will find this out when and if they try them my apologies if I offended you have a nice day

 

[FEENIX]

I'm surprised that Butterbean hasn't chimed in on this.

You behave; @ButterBean behaving is himself so let him be.

 

[ButterBean]

I read your response a couple of times, and you did not address why Hammer bullets yield more speed over Barnes, Badlands, PVA as you noted in #28. All three bullets have different band configurations on the bearing surface to help reduce friction. As @highdrum noted in #27, Cayugas band reduces pressure and allows it to be propelled faster. If the claim is that the Hammer bullet can be pushed faster than cup/core bullets because of the bands reducing friction, then yes. But the generalization that Hammer bullet yields faster over Barnes, Badlands, and PVA Cayugas require empirical evidence/testing.

Unless somebody beat me to it or somebody already did it and just hasn't shared it with us yet, I will be experimenting with the Cayuga 117 (1.365"/G7 .282/1:8") and Hammer AH 117 (1.33"/G7 .210/1:8.5") out of my .257 WBTY with 1:7" twist. The load configuration will be the same for both. Now, if I can only find the time to do it. I am a continuous learner, I guess that's why I am still going to school.

The Hammers are faster than the Barnes, PVA's and Cayuga's, I haven't shot the Badlands but one of my associates has and they are faster as well, Why is a combination of the design and the specific material that they use has a great deal to with it

 

[ButterBean]

I'm surprised that Butterbean hasn't chimed in on this.

All apologies it is Deer season and I was hunting all week

 

[FEENIX]

The Hammers are faster than the Barnes, PVA's and Cayuga's, I haven't shot the Badlands but one of my associates has and they are faster as well, Why is a combination of the design and the specific material that they use has a great deal to with it

As I said, the unsubstantiated claim needs empirical evidence, esp. when other users have different results. This type of issue/concern is one of the very reasons I always do my own test for any bullets I use for my intended purpose.