Mach 1
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Yes the whole Point of handloading is to increase accuracy and overall performance. And price to a degree. Although some of the bullets I buy these days cost enough to annoy me.
Larger diameter bullets allow more room for error?
- Thread starter FIGJAM
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Yes the whole Point of handloading is to increase accuracy and overall performance. And price to a degree. Although some of the bullets I buy these days cost enough to annoy me.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
It's been annoying me since about 2009 when component prices started to go nuts.
It isn't that producing lead, brass, copper, or primers has gotten more expensive, it's just the cost of complying with all of the requirements and a temporary shortage of metals that drove it up and have kept it up.
People forget that regulations come often at a very high price.
Mach 1
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- Jan 11, 2018
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No kidding. When you no longer even have a lead plant in the states bc of government regs, something is wrong.
I shoot some CNCd bullets outa the 50 and that's just ridiculous. At 245 grains of powder per pop and with the hazardous freight, a guys has to buy a lot at a time. And of course when the wife sees that I stay at work longer for a couple of days haha
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Pretty sad that the in the former world's leading industrial country we now have to ship ore offshore to have it processed and returned.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
"Sometimes the magic works, and sometimes it doesn't" Old Lodge Skins in Little Big Man.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/florida-teen-survives-spear-through-head
Placement and caliber appear adequate. Evidently it weaved it's way through non vital anatomy some how, or maybe if the tip was more of a "Keith" style
......... About the time I don't believe a " good hit-got away" story I recall this. I also remember about 30 years ago the Idaho F&G collared elk, recovered the collars during and after the season, and reported only about a third of the elk shot were recovered. Apply your own experience to infer why.
Larger calibers make recovery more certain in my experience. Bullet technology has improved performance in all calibers, and admittedly a piece of my large bore bias, is based on bullet failure. Better bullets have changed my advice to a young fellow I work with, desiring to get into the game, is different than what it would have been a couple of decades ago.
To make it just an energy question. If we take a .300 Winchester Magnum, and give the 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet, 3100 fps, at 100 yards we get 3406 ft/lbs. If we take a 220 grain Partition 2700 fps, same 100 yards we get 2825 ft/lbs.
Target, elk, moose, big bear, or hog, quartering either way, and my experience tells me the results with the 220 grain bullet will yield a more positive result. Especially if we're talking recovery.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I've seen a bait hunt turn into a hound hunt on occasion!
Given my location and game targeted..... in my camp 7mm Rem Mag & 30-'06 are minimum but prefer 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM, all manner of 6.5's are out and not negotiable, have had a few fellas go hate mode on me but guess what ? they didn't get to go moose hunting with me in my area... the gal that showed up with a 300 WSM got a monster moose, and so did the guy with a 30-378 WBY, haha... the 6.5 CM guy never left his state.. even though I offered loaners in 300WSM, 300 Win Mag and 300 Wby all scoped , sighted in and loads developed, hell I even have a prized Sako TRGS M995 in 340 Wby I'd let a fella use ... I simply have no use for tracking game and searching anymore, smash them in the shoulder with the proper cartridge/bullet and pick them up where you shot them, makes life so much easier and more time for hunting....
my personal hunts are 100% solo and I pack enough gun to drop game out to 1500 yards and will double as a defensive weapon at ten paces as well,
there is far too much hipster supporter mania surrounding the 6.5mm these days it's enough to make you puke, making a "tink" sound on steel at 1000 yards does not make it a 1000 yard big game hunting cartridge, in my case not even 100 yards... NOT negotiable
my personal hunts are 100% solo and I pack enough gun to drop game out to 1500 yards and will double as a defensive weapon at ten paces as well,
there is far too much hipster supporter mania surrounding the 6.5mm these days it's enough to make you puke, making a "tink" sound on steel at 1000 yards does not make it a 1000 yard big game hunting cartridge, in my case not even 100 yards... NOT negotiable
You really don't quit!!!!!
You had to bring up the Holy Grail, now lets throw the .270 Winchester into the mix and ole Jack might be resurrected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally agree with your statement here. I also have to say that I believe that the marketers of the reloading products have also taken advantage of the work the "anti's" have done and have raised their prices on components to make more money off of the consumers of their products. How real have the shortages been and at what costs to the consumer!!??? I have noticed that the "shortage" prices never came down after the alleged shortage was over! Case in point the .280 Ackley Improved brass does not cost anymore to manufacture than .270 Winchester brass, yet.........the cost for the Ackley is triple that of the .270 Win brass. We used to be able to buy pistol ammunition in boxes of 50, now the prices are the same only we are getting 20 or 25 rounds in a box. I've been reloading and shooting for a very long time and have watched the increasing prices for components increase at a very large pace over the past few years. Won't date myself here, but 4831 and BLC-2 was $1.00 a pound and came in waxed paper bags, back just before dinosaurs were placed on the endangered species list!! You really cranked me up with this post. I don't mind spending my hard earned money on a product, however it really --$$E$ me off when I get fleeced by a company who has misrepresented their expenses in an effort to acquire more profit!! Capitalism at its finest!!!
I shot a buck @ 350 yds last year, he was in a trot heading south & wasn't stopping, about 9mph wind from the south. I didn't lead him any and didn't hold for any windage. This resulted in a gut shot with a 180 sst @ 3150fps MV 300 wm. He went straight down quick in tall sage. I didn't realize I gut shot him. He stuck his head & neck up out of the sage about 10 seconds later and I put another one thru his neck and that finished him off. This is my take on it: I made a poor first shot cause I didn't lead enough or compensate for the wind. Did the 180 sst @ 3150 fps in the guts buy me a little time to get back on track for the follow up shot? I don't know for sure but i Don't think my 25-06 would have gave my as much time to follow up, but who knows? I can't prove that and I continue to try to read conditions & the situation better. Does a large caliber allow more margin for error? Maybe it does? Until the point to where you can't shoot that hard recoiling beast as accurately as a smaller caliber and at that point you are better off with the small caliber. I'm my opinion, there is a compromise of some sort in either direction you go & you've got to find what you can shoot the best with that will possibly allow yourself enough margin for error.So I have heard this said multiple times on multiple threads. Do larger diameter bullets really allow more room for error?
I am genuinely curious what everybody's opinion is. Lets talk elk and deer calibers, no need to bring up the 50 BMG.
For example, do you guys believe bullets in 308 expands the kill zone in a game animal vs a 264 or 284?
I am not sure I buy into it...what are your thoughts?
*I edited this to take out specific cartridges and focus on bullet diameter. Trying to avoid cartridge bias
FIGJAM
Well-Known Member
But what if instead of a creedmoor it was a 26 Nosler or 6.5-300 wby that could equal the energy of one of your 300 Wsms and exceeds the energy of your 7mmRM and 30-06? Is the additional .02 diameter of the 7mm or the .044 diameter of the 30-06 more important than energy delivered by a cartidge? You seem to think so, but why?
FIGJAM
Well-Known Member
But would a 6.5-300 or a 26 Nosler done the same thing because the energy would have been comparable? .257 cals weren't included because they can't generate the same energy as the 300 mags.
BTW - Love the 25-06 caliber. One of my favorites for sure
I think its possible that it could have done the same thing. I do personally believe in what some say is a myth: hydrostatic shock. I won't debate that topic but I think it happens. But just say that buck was heading north instead of south and I hit him square in his shoulder. 180 sst @3150 or 140gr 6.5 @ 3300+ , which one punches thru shoulder bone better? It's going to depend on what 6.5 bullet that I would have been shooting. It's anybody's guess on how that would turn out. I'm just saying this cause it's something else to think about when considering margin for error.
Notice "my location and game targeted" disclaimer.... may not apply to most of you guys who mainly target deer in the CONUS....
Truthfully I'd rather not have any form of 7mm's in my camp either, my old man is the only one who gets a pass but I backed him up with my 300 RUM & 338 Edge in the past and now 338 Norma Imp to make sure moose don't run off into shyte that will take several days to pack out of... We hunt in some pretty thick and rough country, 100 extra yards of packing through impenetrable alder and willow swamp bog will absolutely ruin a fellas mood, especially when he could be out looking for another large antlered bull
Several factors make the call for 30 caliber min of magnum preference....... THEY KILL BETTER and FASTER ........ now y'all may not notice the difference on deer but we sure as hell can tell how a brown bear reacts even when hit with a stout 30 cal bullet..... Regardless of what the 26 Nosler or 6.5-300 WBY claims are for energy, they will never kill as good as a 300 MAG with a 200 gr bullet..... I have a couple 6.5's that smoke the 26 Nos and 6.5/300 WBY in regards to energy and velocity but will never choose them over a 30 cal Mag for a moose hunt in bear country, now a dedicated caribou hunt in the open tundra they will shine, but so will a 300 Magnum
lots of people hunt with smaller cartridges out here and lots of those same people have all kinds of retarded stories about losing game or extended search parties to find/track game and/or WW3 shooting sessions by multiple shooters, there is nothing cooler than pop n drop on the spot............. or as most would call it DRT
