Larger diameter bullets allow more room for error?

[Mach 1]

 

[WildRose]

I watched 2 elk shot this year not including my own. First was with 300 rum 210 berger 3100 FPS. First shot was 240 yards and second shot 260 yards before she tipped over. Both shots perfect lung shots.

Second elk was 250 yards with 6.5-06 140 grain berger at a mild 2800fps out of the wife's gun. First shot was in the lungs and before she could get back on the cow it tipped over within less than 10 yards. Now supposedly the 300 rum should have killed that cow quicker than the 6.5-06 did. But it didn't

Getting identical hits to compare is pretty much impossible when it comes to wild game and some animals just refuse to give up where others just roll over.

I've opened up big boars, many of them that had their entire chest cavity turned to red jello that ran 300-500yds before cratering and seen others just tip over like they'd been struck by lightning with similar hits.

Just like with some people some animals will fight as long as there's even a tiny spark of life left in them while others have no fight in them at all.

 

[WildRose]

And there ya have it, the .264 is THE new elk caliber.

Yep, about 60 years ago.

 

[WildRose]

View attachment 115742

I would think the example from broz on last page would be enlightening. If a 7mm can't keep up how would a 6.5. The above is from Nathan Foster, over 8500 head of game harvested...

You might want to read that again. Foster doesn't say that either the 6.5 or 7mm's won't work on large game and millions of dead large animals killed with both show they are more than adequate in most circumstances.

 

[FIGJAM]

View attachment 115749





You're not comparing apples to apples. The 200 ELD X bullet is not near the best bullet in a 308 caliber. While the 142 bullet you used in the 264 caliber is very near the top in terms of BC for that caliber. If you're going to handpick bullets, use the 230 smk in the 308 cal. The 230 smk at 2800 FPS is what was used for this ballistic calculator print out that's attached. As you can see the 264 calibers just can't touch it.

You are obviously using some handload data - i wish somebody besides nosler made 26 nosler ammo. Your heavy smks and bergers arent in any factory ammo either. Also, they make a 150gr smk in 264 cal.

I am not arguing that the 230 gr berger can produce more energy than a 142 gr 264 cal. I am arguing that energy trumps bullet diameter when it comes to wound channels and margin of error.

 

[Mach 1]

You might want to read that again. Foster doesn't say that either the 6.5 or 7mm's won't work on large game and millions of dead large animals killed with both show they are more than adequate in most circumstances.

Yes and the 30-30 used to be used for everything. Will the 6.5 and 7mm stuff work? Well yes. No one is saying a 6.5 won't kill an elk. There are just a lot of us that think the heavy 308 and 338 cals are better suited for long range large game hunting.

 

[FIGJAM]

View attachment 115750

Really? This isn't even a creedmoor thread.

 

[Mach 1]

Really? This isn't even a creedmoor thread.

Nope but it sure is funny.

 

[WildRose]

Yes and the 30-30 used to be used for everything. Will the 6.5 and 7mm stuff work? Well yes. No one is saying a 6.5 won't kill an elk. There are just a lot of us that think the heavy 308 and 338 cals are better suited for long range large game hunting.

And I'm from the school of "Dead is Dead".

 

[WildRose]

Nope but it sure is funny.

True.... .

 

[FIGJAM]

Yes and the 30-30 used to be used for everything. Will the 6.5 and 7mm stuff work? Well yes. No one is saying a 6.5 won't kill an elk. There are just a lot of us that think the heavy 308 and 338 cals are better suited for long range large game hunting.

But why? I get the 338 stuff, its hard for even a heavy 308 to replicate the big 338s energy. If a fast 264 with high bc bullets generates the same or similar energy at a given range as the heavier 308, why isn't the 264 just as good? Does the heavy 308 add an extra 1/4" on the end of your ****? Seriously - unless that extra .044 in diameter creates an exponentially large wound channel, the advantage is all psychological.

 

[Mach 1]

You are obviously using some handload data - i wish somebody besides nosler made 26 nosler ammo. Your heavy smks and bergers arent in any factory ammo either. Also, they make a 150gr smk in 264 cal.

I am not arguing that the 230 gr berger can produce more energy than a 142 gr 264 cal. I am arguing that energy trumps bullet diameter when it comes to wound channels and margin of error.

Yes I'm using my hand load data. But I don't have to. This was taken right off of midways website. There is a ton of factory ammo like what I have attached. Run that through your ballistic calculator. It's a 210 Berger hunting bullet at 2992 FPS. And it's factory ammo. That's 200 fps faster than I hand load my 215 Berger's. Like I said, as far as ft lbs of energy the 264 calibers can't keep up.

 

[FIGJAM]

View attachment 115754

Yes I'm using my hand load data. But I don't have to. This was taken right off of midways website. There is a ton of factory ammo like what I have attached. Run that through your ballistic calculator. It's a 210 Berger hunting bullet at 2992 FPS. And it's factory ammo. That's 200 fps faster than I hand load my 215 Berger's. Like I said, as far as ft lbs of energy the 264 calibers can't keep up.

 

[Mach 1]

But why? I get the 338 stuff, its hard for even a heavy 308 to replicate the big 338s energy. If a fast 264 with high bc bullets generates the same or similar energy at a given range as the heavier 308, why isn't the 264 just as good? Does the heavy 308 add an extra 1/4" on the end of your ****? Seriously - unless that extra .044 in diameter creates an exponentially large wound channel, the advantage is all psychological.

Like I said, apples to apples. the heavy 264 stuff can't compete with the heavy 308 stuff in terms of energy. This is were we disagree