Know your chamber

[J E Custom]

"IF" I remember right the chamber cast with Cerro-safe is accurate one hour after removal as it cools, but after 200 (?) hours it will have expanded to a size larger than the chamber.

Cerrosafe is a great tool if used properly. I like to use it if I have an unknown chamber or one that is not marked on the barrel. I have worked on rifles that were chambered for three different cartridges and had barrel markings all over the barrel, so I had to prove/find out which chamber was current.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t.../cerrosafe-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx

I also found a 375 RUM that was marked 375 H&H. If the instructions are followed it is great for this.

For known chambers, I prefer to use fired brass to really get the actual dimensions. Plus it remains the same size as long as you want. for these I keep a fired round in the die set for a reference. (I have been known to forget little details).

Cerrosafe is like many other tools, there is a right time to use them and sometimes there are other
tools that will do a better job in the right circumstance.

I to, stopped loading for other people because many of the reasons I have listed were unknown to me and when a good guy I knew made a mistake and fired a 308 win in a 300 win (I still don't see how he set it off)and split the 308 case from end to end. "Done" !!!.

That is the reason I wanted to remind people to "know there chamber" before starting to load for it.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Pdvdh]

Good cautionary advice.

I own a rifle I purchased used about 6 years ago. It's got a Brux barrel mounted on a blueprinted Rem 700 action. The barrel is stamped 280 A.I. The chamber is actually cut for the 280 RCBS Improved 30-degree shoulder cartridge. It didn't cause any dangerous incident for me, and I wasn't overly upset. I was surprised. As soon as you've received any used rifle, there's obviously the chance the chamber has been altered or the barrel miss-marked.

I already owned a 280 RCBS Improved on a Win M70 action. Now I own two rifles in the same cartridge. If I blundered into a miss-marked barrel, I'm sure there are more out there.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Knowing how loose the chambers are in the neck area which is I'm sure the result of their lawyers advice I'm amazed that most factory right off the shelf rifles shoot as well as they do. Most mass run chambers in my experience show .006-.009 per side of gap, compared to my Borden cut PPC neck which is less than 001 total, needless to say brass lasts forever. Every once in awhile I come across factory rifles that will shoot sub one inch groups no matter what you feed them and some much better than that..always amazes me, some costing less than $350.00 total. And for whatever reason it's big magnums that shoot very well , I have a 7mm mag and 8mm mag that shoot phenomenal groups with full power hunting loads and bullets..know your chamber and it's dimensions is a great idea and if it's custom cut is an even better idea with all the possibilities there.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Great post JE! I agree 110%. The internet is a great tool, but once you start really getting into reloading, you start using that manual for comparison a lot more than you thought you would. You find yourself thumbing through it for when you get an idea in your brain. It becomes something you regularly turn-to for answers and helping you form ideas a lot more than you originally anticipated. So, I agree with JE, do yourself a favor and get a hardback print copy reloading manual.

Also, once you start spending lots of money on components and other reloading stuff, you also spent $1,500+ on your rifle setup...So, in the grand scheme of things, what is spending another $20-30 on a reloading manual...

Reading a book never hurt anybody...But NOT reading a reloading manual has hurt plenty of people. So, be smart, and if you're not an experienced wildcatter, or are fairly new to reloading, I suggest sticking by what the manual says.

 

[stx]

Great post and great advice!

 

[FEENIX]

The problem I see in reloading in general (not everybody of course) is that "WE" want instant gratification instead of enjoying the learning process safely. gun)

Cheers!

 

[MudRunner2005]

The problem I see in reloading in general (not everybody of course) is that "WE" want instant gratification instead of enjoying the learning process safely. gun)

Cheers!

Ed, it's not just reloading, it's the world we live in these days. With the internet and smartphones and computers, we have anything and everything right at our fingertips, so it eventually becomes a learned behavior. Just like feeding stray animals...After a while, it becomes expected. So, I would say your comment is spot-on.

 

[FEENIX]

Ed, it's not just reloading, it's the world we live in these days. With the internet and smartphones and computers, we have anything and everything right at our fingertips, so it eventually becomes a learned behavior. Just like feeding stray animals...After a while, it becomes expected. So, I would say your comment is spot-on.

Very sad but so true.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

This has got me thinking. My original post was a bit off topic from what the thread was intended to be. But that's ok, sometimes I am a bit slow.

I think that I will from now on not take for granted what a rifle says it is when we do custom load development for customers. I think my first move with each rifle will be to a COW method fire form of one piece of brass to make sure that we have what we think we have.

Thanks again J E

Steve

 

[J E Custom]

This has got me thinking. My original post was a bit off topic from what the thread was intended to be. But that's ok, sometimes I am a bit slow.

I think that I will from now on not take for granted what a rifle says it is when we do custom load development for customers. I think my first move with each rifle will be to a COW method fire form of one piece of brass to make sure that we have what we think we have.

Thanks again J E

Steve

Thanks Steve.
Just a little history on loading for other people.

I stopped all together because once you loaded for them there were no grantees that they would follow your instructions Even though I cut the chamber and started out with all of the correct dimensions and components.

I would never load for a rifle that I didn't chamber and head space and now with all the on line re loaders that don't know what there chamber needs to perform safely. I don't even give out load data any more because of chamber/rifle differences and the chances of something bad happening.

Like most of the older re loaders, I did not have all of the tools that are available today and had to
study reloading manuals and apply there information carefully and under stand everything about
The Do's and don'ts of reloading.

It's not the liability as much as the concern for the person shooting ammo that they may think is safe and in fact may not be in there rifle and at best only have trouble with it (We know what the worst case would be).

I love to reload and recommend every shooter should do it, not for the cost savings but the knowledge that will come with it once a person has a good understanding of all of the different
things that can effect ammo performance and safety. The best way to do this is to buy several reloading manuals and read them cover to cover. look at all of the definitions and understand and apply them to reloading.

Take nothing for granted while loading and just because an experienced re loader gave you his pet load, doesn't mean it will shoot/perform the same way in your rifle. All of the re loading manuals
I have, start with a warning. "Start with the reduced loads and work up" or "Never start with a maximum load".

I know it sounds like I am paranoid, but I don't even trust Factory ammo any more and rarely buy
it because of the difference from round to round. I even found a box of 7 RUM with 10 rounds of
160 grain bullets and 10 rounds of 180 grain bullets in the same box. what brought it to my attention Was the fact that they had different primers. I though the factory had just changed primers in the middle of a run, but after firing one of each, recoil told me something was different and I pulled and weigh the bullets.

There is a lot more to re loading than just priming, filling with powder and seating a bullet in the case.

J E CUSTOM

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Thanks Steve.
Just a little history on loading for other people.

I stopped all together because once you loaded for them there were no grantees that they would follow your instructions Even though I cut the chamber and started out with all of the correct dimensions and components.

I would never load for a rifle that I didn't chamber and head space and now with all the on line re loaders that don't know what there chamber needs to perform safely. I don't even give out load data any more because of chamber/rifle differences and the chances of something bad happening.

Like most of the older re loaders, I did not have all of the tools that are available today and had to
study reloading manuals and apply there information carefully and under stand everything about
The Do's and don'ts of reloading.

It's not the liability as much as the concern for the person shooting ammo that they may think is safe and in fact may not be in there rifle and at best only have trouble with it (We know what the worst case would be).

I love to reload and recommend every shooter should do it, not for the cost savings but the knowledge that will come with it once a person has a good understanding of all of the different
things that can effect ammo performance and safety. The best way to do this is to buy several reloading manuals and read them cover to cover. look at all of the definitions and understand and apply them to reloading.

Take nothing for granted while loading and just because an experienced re loader gave you his pet load, doesn't mean it will shoot/perform the same way in your rifle. All of the re loading manuals
I have, start with a warning. "Start with the reduced loads and work up" or "Never start with a maximum load".

I know it sounds like I am paranoid, but I don't even trust Factory ammo any more and rarely buy
it because of the difference from round to round. I even found a box of 7 RUM with 10 rounds of
160 grain bullets and 10 rounds of 180 grain bullets in the same box. what brought it to my attention Was the fact that they had different primers. I though the factory had just changed primers in the middle of a run, but after firing one of each, recoil told me something was different and I pulled and weigh the bullets.

There is a lot more to re loading than just priming, filling with powder and seating a bullet in the case.

J E CUSTOM

It seems that you are saying that you are afraid that they would share the ammo with others?

We won't load for anyone who does not supply us with their rifle for the fear of not having ammo match to the rifle. Plus we are offering much more specialized ammunition than the average ammo manufacture. We will from this point on make sure that people know not to share their ammo with others. We certainly do not ever work max loads for any customer due to elevation changes from here to there.

I have pulled the trigger on some factory ammo that seemed quite a bit hotter than what I would load.

Steve

 

[J E Custom]

It seems that you are saying that you are afraid that they would share the ammo with others?

We won't load for anyone who does not supply us with their rifle for the fear of not having ammo match to the rifle. Plus we are offering much more specialized ammunition than the average ammo manufacture. We will from this point on make sure that people know not to share their ammo with others. We certainly do not ever work max loads for any customer due to elevation changes from here to there.

I have pulled the trigger on some factory ammo that seemed quite a bit hotter than what I would load.

Steve

Not necessarily afraid but very cautious. when I loaded for someone that I had re barreled or re chambered a rifle, I normally worked up the load and then loaded 8 to 10 Boxes 160 to 200 rounds
(A life time supply for most hunters). But now that can be a weekend at the range. A few of these
people would save the "Special loads" for hunting and just go buy some factory ammo to shoot at the range.

Now with components being in short supply the tendency to substitute is great and substituting
can lead to major issues.

I have a few ammo makers that I do trust and when building something that I don't have dies for, I will normally buy one box
of newly manufactured (New components) and do some test firing. before I load a "Blue pill" buy pulling one of the bullets and
adding one or more grains (Depending on the cartridge)of the same powder to reach max+ pressures for proof testing. All of this
is done buy myself before handing the rifle over.

Most people that re load ammo to sell, are very experienced and do extensive testing and strive for accurate and safe ammo, But they are not the problem. It's the guy that puts the best ammo made in the wrong chamber. There have been many instances of this(Someone on this site, posted a real eye opener of someone placing a 300 blackout round in a 223 or something in 22 cal. they had a great picture of the barrel milled down to the bore showing a 22 cal. bullet about 4" long. I wish I could find this post (Maybe the original poster would re post this for all to see).

More reasons to "Know your chamber".

J E CUSTOM

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Not necessarily afraid but very cautious. when I loaded for someone that I had re barreled or re chambered a rifle, I normally worked up the load and then loaded 8 to 10 Boxes 160 to 200 rounds
(A life time supply for most hunters). But now that can be a weekend at the range. A few of these
people would save the "Special loads" for hunting and just go buy some factory ammo to shoot at the range.

Now with components being in short supply the tendency to substitute is great and substituting
can lead to major issues.

I have a few ammo makers that I do trust and when building something that I don't have dies for, I will normally buy one box
of newly manufactured (New components) and do some test firing. before I load a "Blue pill" buy pulling one of the bullets and
adding one or more grains (Depending on the cartridge)of the same powder to reach max+ pressures for proof testing. All of this
is done buy myself before handing the rifle over.

Most people that re load ammo to sell, are very experienced and do extensive testing and strive for accurate and safe ammo, But they are not the problem. It's the guy that puts the best ammo made in the wrong chamber. There have been many instances of this(Someone on this site, posted a real eye opener of someone placing a 300 blackout round in a 223 or something in 22 cal. they had a great picture of the barrel milled down to the bore showing a 22 cal. bullet about 4" long. I wish I could find this post (Maybe the original poster would re post this for all to see).

More reasons to "Know your chamber".

J E CUSTOM

Thank you,

I just want to make sure that I am not lacking caution somewhere. Your 300blk and 22 cal something could not be stopped no matter who made the ammo. Bad mistake. I remember when I was a kid goin through hunters ed seeing the graphic pics of people who did not take care when handling firearms. Wrong cartridge for the rifle has been going on for ever. No matter how hard they try to make them incompatible people still find a way to put the wrong one in.

This is a great thread. Thanks again for starting it.

Steve