Knight Mountaineer vs Remington UML

[jmeier1981]

I bought a new .52 Knight Mountaineer late last year and have not yet shot it or even mounted a scope on it, its still in the box untouched. Im wondering if it would be worth it to sell or trade it for a Remingtin UML. Ive had a Knight LRH in .52 and it shot sub moa @ 100yds all day with the knight red hot 350g. hp with 89g. WEIGHED charges of BH209 so I was hoping when I got the new Mountaineer it would hang with my older LRH. But now Im wondering if the Remingtin UML might be a better option, maybe possibly as accurate or more so at longer ranges and a little more energy or flatter trajectory.

Any thoughts?

Ive seen a few videos of the Rem. UML and it seemed to shoot "ok" but nothing overly impressive. I really like the cartridge style priming, B&C stock, rem 700 action, and good trigger but none of those matter by themselves if they dont work great in combination. Im not looking for 500yd performance but I want to be REALLY confident in accuracy and energy out to at keast 300yds and maybe a touch more.

 

[jmeier1981]

Nobody has anything to say???

 

[ENCORE]

This is not what you may want to hear........

On some of the different forums, there's a number of new owners of the RU that are having problems getting the rifle to group. Some report no better groups than 8" at 100yds. Another reported he tried every charge combination, every bullet he could get his hands on and still, no better than an 8" group.

I know of one retailer that sold three new RU rifles. Two of those rifles shoot acceptable groups for the owners out to 100yds only. Neither of those to owners to my knowledge, has shot beyond 100yds.
The third owner brought his rifle back to the retailer, madder than a wet hen. He stated he couldn't get it to hit paper at all. The retailer, a muzzleloader himself, went with the owner to shoot the rifle. He couldn't get it to hit a 4 FOOT X 4 FOOT piece of cardboard at 37 YARDS! Remington wanted that rifle back and its been sent. He estimates about two months before it will be returned.

Two other owners are sending their rifles back to Remington that I've read about. An within the last couple days, another owner slugged his barrel before shooting it. He called and talked with Remington concerning the specs for the lands and groves. When he slugged his barrel, he found that his, I believe, .011" out of the manufacturers spec.

Look as one may, the good reports are just not showing up in the different forums...

 

[jmeier1981]

This is not what you may want to hear........

On some of the different forums, there's a number of new owners of the RU that are having problems getting the rifle to group. Some report no better groups than 8" at 100yds. Another reported he tried every charge combination, every bullet he could get his hands on and still, no better than an 8" group.

I know of one retailer that sold three new RU rifles. Two of those rifles shoot acceptable groups for the owners out to 100yds only. Neither of those to owners to my knowledge, has shot beyond 100yds.
The third owner brought his rifle back to the retailer, madder than a wet hen. He stated he couldn't get it to hit paper at all. The retailer, a muzzleloader himself, went with the owner to shoot the rifle. He couldn't get it to hit a 4 FOOT X 4 FOOT piece of cardboard at 37 YARDS! Remington wanted that rifle back and its been sent. He estimates about two months before it will be returned.

Two other owners are sending their rifles back to Remington that I've read about. An within the last couple days, another owner slugged his barrel before shooting it. He called and talked with Remington concerning the specs for the lands and groves. When he slugged his barrel, he found that his, I believe, .011" out of the manufacturers spec.

Look as one may, the good reports are just not showing up in the different forums...

Hey bad news is better than no news in this case... like I said they seemed to shoot "ok" in the videos I watched nut not any better than any other newer muzzys out there. I really thought the build specs on this gun would make it a tack driver but who knows. Im wondering if the really bad one wasnt a scope issue, bad scope or loose bases or rings. I had a couple base screws strip out on a muzzy ince and the scope seemed solid but had a hard time keeping it on a 15x15in pc of paper at 100yds... I blew a ton of time and money trying different loads and bullets before I found the problem but its extremely hard to believe any gun could shoot as bad as they claimed that one did... im guessin they may have exaggerated a bit cuz a daisy red rider would shoot better than that, hell I cld throw the gun at that range and hit a target that big

 

[ENCORE]

Because I shoot the parent rifle, the Ultimate Firearms Inc. rifle, a couple guys that knew me called one evening from CO. One of the guys had just bought a new RU and was using it on an elk hunt, as both those guys are muzzleloaders. He couldn't get it to shoot a group at 100yds and needed help. (Well I wondered why he waited until he got to the outfitter before checking his rifle???)

I know the ignition system, but not the RU. I gave him a few suggestions that he could try, things that I would have tried. Unfortunately I never heard back to find out what his results were.

A person can search all day and you just won't find long range reviews. Actually, its odd as heck. One would think guys would be posting on the different forums, its not happening. I know of 3 or 4 guys that are ready to drop the cash, but won't spend a penny until they see some long range reports with the rifle. Even the writers who wrote about the rifle, never posted any 300yd targets, all were 100yd targets.

I'd really like to see the rifle be a success myself. Its been awhile since a new and different muzz hit the market. There's not been an issue with the ignition system reported by any shooter as yet. I sincerely hope Remington gets their barrel issues worked out.

 

[Elite Muzzleloader]

Why not get a 700 ml have it converted to a 45 shoot black Horn or smokeless. If your interested I'd talk to a guy on Doug's message board who shoots in competitions with one shooting black horn out past 300. You can spend $800-$1000 to have one converted.

 

[pooldoc]

Many years back when Remington first introduced their 700 muzzleloaded using a #11 cap they didn't group well at all. A friend had a 52 or 54, (bad memory) that shot so poorly that Remington took them all back. I have 3 Knights and with 110 grs of BH 209, 300 Gr Harvester Bullets and good scopes I'm very comfortable with up to 200yds. I'm sure i can strech that some with up to 120 grs of BH209, but they're no fun to shoot. I refuse to take a longer shot than that out of concern for wounding and not being able to find an animal that far out unless it drops in its tracks. Retained enegy really falls off after 200 + yds. as well. Most of the hunters I know that shoot centerfires can't hit much at that trange anyway. I'd opt for the Mountairneer.

 

[ENCORE]

Heavier bullets retain energy much better than lighter bullets at longer ranges. The 300gr bullets at the velocity I shoot, still retain over 1,000fpe at 400 yards. Would I take a 400yd shot? NOT without all elements perfect.

With the RU, many of the guys shooting them, just aren't posting for some reason. So what we end up with are only the guys that are having problems with the rifle posting. Oddest darn thing......

 

[Elite Muzzleloader]

My converted 700ml shot a 2" group at 430 yards on this range trip checking scope tracking it's only a 2 shot group once I figured the right adjustment. Low on loads that day.

430 yards 2 shot group ran out of bullets

 

[ENCORE]

My converted 700ml shot a 2" group at 430 yards on this range trip checking scope tracking it's only a 2 shot group once I figured the right adjustment. Low on loads that day.

430 yards 2 shot group ran out of bullets

Well you beat my 2.5" pellet burner 400yd group

 

[Elite Muzzleloader]

Well you beat my 2.5" pellet burner 400yd group

Yeah but you beat me with the amount that you have in your group! Along with mine is smokeless and yours is a pellet burner, great group!

 

[pooldoc]

Like Encore use the 300 gr version of several bullets because of higher downrange retained energy than the 250 gr. Really nice shooting. What is the bullet drop at 400 yds and what scope are you using? As I mentioned earlier, the heavy vegatation on the ranch we lease makes it almost impossible to tell if the animal has been hit. I killed a nice 12pt at 110 yds Thanksgiving that ran no more than 20 yds before piling up, but after his first jump he was completely out of sight. Do you use a spotter on those long shots?

 

[ENCORE]

Like Encore use the 300 gr version of several bullets because of higher downrange retained energy than the 250 gr. Really nice shooting. What is the bullet drop at 400 yds and what scope are you using? As I mentioned earlier, the heavy vegatation on the ranch we lease makes it almost impossible to tell if the animal has been hit. I killed a nice 12pt at 110 yds Thanksgiving that ran no more than 20 yds before piling up, but after his first jump he was completely out of sight. Do you use a spotter on those long shots?

For me....... I have a Leupold VX-6, 3-18x50 with CDS and Illuminated dot. The CDS turret is matched to my bullet and velocity. First custom turret I've owned and I LIKE IT

I zero my rifle at 200yds and set the turret, from that point on, its dial and shoot. I can dial it down to 100yds. If left at the 200yd zero, I'm just slightly lower than 4" high at 100yds. At 400yds the bullet drops just over 48" with over 1,000fpe.
For a long range, beyond 200yds, all elements would have to be pretty much perfect or darn close. I've found that wind doesn't affect a bullet to much out to 200yds but.... once you exceed that distance the wind plays a huge part.

Most years where I live, I wouldn't need a spotter, as we normally have snow clear up to your.... well you know. This is my first year with a true long range muzzleloader and just my luck, the poorest year hunting since back in the 60's and early 70's. Between EHD, bTB, spring coyote predation on fawns and two really BAD winters, our herd is way down. We had over 40" of ice on an 8,500 acre lake last year with no pressure cracks. The year before, the snow depths made our designated muzzleloading season here, all but impossible.

Practice, practice for next year......

 

[Nomosendero]

Encore, it is a rare event for me to get an opportunity to hunt in the snow here. I do get that chance though when I go out West. If the snow is not too deep or crusty it is really neat.