Is your rangefinder causing your misses??

[THEIS]

Hello,
Well as the title says....Is your rangefinder causing your misses??
Just for example..run your chosen ballistics for a 2600 meter target compared to a 2610 meter target, BUT be sure to take into account your MV deviation margin too, so run those ballistics for those distances with your MV variations of +/- 5 fps

One of the most LEAST talked about aspects of ELR shooting is Margin of Error in support equipment such as laser rangefinders, scope calibration errors, gps errors, etc.

So taking that a Vector IV, Vector 21, and Moskito have a +/- 3 METERS margin of error for anything under 50 meters or over 2000 meters......
What is the margin of error in YOUR chosen rangefinder?
Have you checked the margin of error on your device in different weather conditions?
Have you checked the margin of error with brand new batteries compared to used batteries?

Ever wonder why Sig does not state the "Kilo" margin of error? (I could not find it on their website at least)

THEIS

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

Here is some more "margin of error" information..this time directly related to "GPS"..

Summarizing this .Gov link http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

GPS-enabled smartphones are typically accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky. However, their accuracy worsens near buildings, bridges, and TREES.

The government commits to broadcasting the GPS signal in space with a global average user range error (URE) of ≤7.8 m (25.6 ft.), with 95% probability.

SOO...run your ballistic data with those margin of errors from the "commonly" used for hunting/shooting GPS systems.....

THEIS

 

[Deleted member 71114]

THEIS

Scope Calibration testing and balistics corrections for those that take the correct steps in checking can pay off ten fold. I am always humbled when those who think that their higher end scopes don't need to be calibrated drop their jaws at the fluctuations in their turrets travel due to the machining of the threads or wear.

The one thing I have never compared or checked is the variance in distance pinged with the PLRF15 with new or used batteries, have you seen any indications of error within a new to used set of batteries, not so much a weak set?

Cheers
osoh

 

[LastShot300]

This is a very interesting topic! in my case, not misses simply because the usual civilian rangefinders (Zeiss, Leica, SIG) most of the time refused to range under less than perfect conditions. That prompted me, many times, to resort to the "old" milling way of doing things, allowing me to keep hunting! Fog, game, "albedo" ... you name it, but never had the chance to try out a real military grade RF. Someday I hope!

Unfortunately the new breed of Vectronix RF are out of my budget and the Terrapin is almost impossible to find in good conditions.

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

OSOH...scope calibration seems to be all the new rage But YES "high" dollar does not 100% eliminate your scope from having issues, BUT it does put the odds in your favor some
Coming from someone that has been diagnosed with "anvil eye"..meaning I can look at something at it BREAKS lolol. I get way better results with going with "high dollar" scope over "my lower price scope has all those features".
**** in 2010 I broke 3 HIGH dollar scopes in 2 weeks and 1 of those was at Shot Show at a BOOTH. The other 2 went tits up at -11 degrees. So everyone with a S&B with locking knobs....your welcome because I broke the prototype at Shot Show. Everyone with what is now Tangent, can thank me for your O rings being upgraded from when Premier first released.
Long story short...scopes are the weakest mechanical link in the shooting equation, ESPECIALLY the ELR shooting equation so when someone says their Vortex is just as good as Hensoldt or their Argos is just as good as PMII I just laugh.

Back to topic.....We have not tested the PLRF15 but the Vector IV and Vector 21 will absorb ALL of the stated +\- 3 METERS margin of error and a little more based off battery strength and environmental temperatures. That being said the Vectronix "Cold IPC" has only a 1m margin of error. Another great feature of the Cold IPC is that it is weapons mounted, so you use your scope magnification to see what you want lazed and then you laze it with the Cold IPC..assuming you have it aligned properly.

THEIS

 

[HARPERC]

......Hello,OSOH...scope calibration seems to be all the new rage But YES "high" dollar does not 100% eliminate your scope from having issues, BUT it does put the odds in your favor some
Coming from someone that has been diagnosed with "anvil eye"..meaning I can look at something at it BREAKS lolol. I get way better results with going with "high dollar" scope over "my lower price scope has all those features".......THEIS

We should stay on opposite ends of the country...I've heard how did this break, I've never seen one break like this before, all my life.
One thing we don't talk about much is the cumulative error of tolerances. The +/- are great when they cancel each other, but get them running together can make a long day.

 

[THEIS]

Hello Harper,

How about you posting a picture of a scope and lets see if I can break it through visual contact via the interwebs lololol.

The S&B locking turret was on their PSR prototype, somehow I managed to bind the turret revolution between unlocked and locked position while in the middle of a turret revolution. The German engineers couldn't figure out how it happened at the booth but 2 months later the new prototype showed up and I was not able to replicate the issue. Then upon touring facility in Germany they showed me the internals of what bound up, how it bound up and the internals of the new ones to show how it could not be bound up.

The Premier reticles was 2 of the first production series of the 5-25x56 model. We had heard some possible issues with elevation/windage adjustments having issues in cold weather. So I took 2 out to the mountains one night that it was set to drop below 0. So I set the rifles outside while I monitored temperature. Once it dropped to 5deg F I shot the rifles and adjusted 5 mils each direction and fired a round with each adjustment. When the temp got to -11deg F the windage adjustments were not shown on POI. POI remained same even though dialing 5 mils each way. Sent them back for diagnosis and next production batch had new O rings. Problem never occurred again with us.

THEIS

 

[HARPERC]

My last evaluation continued a long tradition of demeaning my character by restating their belief I'm a "$&@t magnet". My usual reply is it's only because I know what $&@t looks like.

 

[Bravo 4]

THEIS,
This sounds really familiar to me. I'm known to break things, especially scopes (and myself)! I don't get to play with the "caliber" of scopes you do, but decent ones. Killed 4 different ones in the $1500-$1750 range (from 2 different big name manufacturers) in about a year time. Wouldn't be quite as bad but I paid for them, not issued. Lord knows how many issue MK4s I sent in for repair, at one point I had a rep from Leupold number and when I'd call he would know who it was and ask "What did you break now?!".
Oh and as you probably guessed, the Africa trip was nixed.

 

[THEIS]

Hello Bravo,

Too bad the Africa trip was nixed (Lots of DoD and DoS training has taken a hit for rest of year from reports I got)...I am heading to Ukraine and Kuwait next month lolol...Going to see if I can break the new Mi 8 lolol. UK company is "marketing" some new AP ammunition so we are going to see IF it really can penetrate the thickness they claiming so loading the 50s up for road trip.

"Issued" equipment is a LOVE/HATE thing lolol......Love that they are not paid direct from our pockets, but Hate what gets adopted to be issued equipment, hahaha

THEIS

 

[1eye]

Hello,
Well as the title says....Is your rangefinder causing your misses??
Just for example..run your chosen ballistics for a 2600 meter target compared to a 2610 meter target, BUT be sure to take into account your MV deviation margin too, so run those ballistics for those distances with your MV variations of +/- 5 fps

One of the most LEAST talked about aspects of ELR shooting is Margin of Error in support equipment such as laser rangefinders, scope calibration errors, gps errors, etc.

So taking that a Vector IV, Vector 21, and Moskito have a +/- 3 METERS margin of error for anything under 50 meters or over 2000 meters......
What is the margin of error in YOUR chosen rangefinder?
Have you checked the margin of error on your device in different weather conditions?
Have you checked the margin of error with brand new batteries compared to used batteries?

Ever wonder why Sig does not state the "Kilo" margin of error? (I could not find it on their website at least)

THEIS

seems like a waste of money

 

[Bravo 4]

seems like a waste of money

Nice resurrection…
What are you referring to?

 

[Small Lady]

If my Leica Rangemaster, is only off 50 meters, at 2600 meters away, I would consider that pretty dang good.
Because never ever will I be making a 2600 meter shot, so that doesn't concern me.