Improving the 308 Win performance

[bamban]

I have run it in my 65 Grendel gas gun. Works fine in that rig!

Same way in my Grendel gasser, using 2000MR.

 

[Ghostwolf308]

I have run it in my 65 Grendel gas gun. Works fine in that rig! I probably wouldn't run it in your AR10 at the charges you see here being run in these bolt guns.

Id do a load work up but find the performance interesting. Figured it might be worth a try

 

[duke75]

I have been using for years the 150 BD and BD2 bullets with MVs of 2920 from a 20"barrel and 3050 from a 24" barrel using Leverevolution which outperforms most 3006 loads. Have killed African Plains Game and a large Alaskan Coastal Black Bear all with single shot DRT kills. The attachment is a JBM trajectory calculation of our 175 gr BD2 bullet propelled from a 24" barrel which I think is entirely achievable for the 308 Win at 4500 ft elevation, which is not an unusual elevation to hunt Elk. The higher you go the better. At 900 yds that bullet still has 1300 ft# of energy snd is traveling at 1836 fps which is at least 100 fps more than is required to get it to expand. What makes this possible, and it is the point of the thread, is using a bullet with a high enough BC that will expand reliably at 1700 fps impact. That has already been done by a friend of mine using our 195 gr bullet with a higher BC from a 300WM at 1225 yds.

Mr. You're dreaming. Anyone who would attempt to shot an Elk at 900 yards is not only bemused, but unscrupulous. Tell about the 'cripples and unrecovered animals' you have left in your wake of unethical shooting of game?

 

[duke75]

Mr. You're dreaming. Anyone who would attempt to shot an Elk at 900 yards is not only bemused, but unscrupulous. Tell about the 'cripples and unrecovered animals' you have left in your wake of unethical shooting of game?

 

[charliewhisky]

The 308 is a great and efficient round but there isn't a rational discussion to be had on performance. Within a given caliber, a large capacity case will deliver the same bullet faster or a heavier, higher BC bullet as fast as a smaller case. In no way will a handloaded 308 out perform a handloaded 30-06.

If I'm going to chase elk at 900yds I'm going to leave all the 30 calibers at home and take my 338 Edge.

First a disclaimer, Im not that experienced at long range shooting and I'm not that experienced at fine testing loads when reloading.
I do love to follow some of these discussions and they often make me wonder if I'm missing something important. This thread is one of those. It really seems to be a case of liking the rifle and choosing the best bullet and powder combination.
I don't really get the need to bring in other calibers for comparison, especially when you know the other caliber is tried and proven. An example: I wanted to shoot my 30-06 at 500 to 600 yds at a local range and didn't want to burn out the barrel with high loads. At the same time I had it in the back of my mind that it woud be nice to be able to use the selected round for any gamme animal in North America, even though that is not going to happen. I ended up using a 200gr ELD-x going 2772fps out of the barrel and I got prettty good at 500 to 600 yds. . For that imaginary Elk at 900 yds my bullet would impact at a velocity of 1631fps and an energy of 1182. Horady thinks, "In general, the ELD-X bullets will provide reliable and effective terminal performance up to velocities of approximately 1,600 feet per second."
This is a slow bullet by most of your standards. just saying

 

[JAYgs8163]

Mr. You're dreaming. Anyone who would attempt to shot an Elk at 900 yards is not only bemused, but unscrupulous. Tell about the 'cripples and unrecovered animals' you have left in your wake of unethical shooting of game?

Read the rules about discussing "ETHICS!"

Rule#1

 

[44-40]

The 308 case is capable of good performance depending on how you care to apply, and configure it.. AR 18" barrel 200 gr SMK 2673 fps...or 225 gr ELDM at 2477 fps .. mag feed slows it down 208 gr 2500 fps, 168 Berger 2800 fps. 2825 with 150 gr gold dot... I don't usually shoot light 150 gr bullets in 308, for lack of BC. ..All in 18" AR... I have a modified AR to feed 2.940" to 2.960" cartridges depending on the modified mag brand, to go with the modified reciever.
Bump it up to a long action bolt gun, long barrel, bi metal hybrid cases for magnum like velocities 200 gr SMK are now 2952 fps, and 225 ELD-M 2719 fps, its what's possible from a 308 case. Even have some 250 Atips to try,... as I was already running 2620 fps for the 230 Atips in Lapua brass cases. The hybrid cases allows for more velocity, some of these loads are over 3700 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy out of the 308 case I have experimented extensively with the 308 case. And the Bimetal cases have given my 6.5 Creedmoor a new lease on life, as I was done with that caliber, as it couldn't keep up with my 308 heavy bullets...now its got a new lease on life, and settled on a performance load for the hybrid cases running 153 Arips at 2956 fps, 150 SMK 2980 fps, and 147 at 2979 fps average velocity and grouping...big improvement over factory 2700 fps area, loads. It takes alot of time, expense, and effort to experiment with components, altering firearms, testing available powders, and a machine shop to do the alterations, action, barrels, chambering, throating.
It's easier for the average guy to just by a magnum in that caliber...but I already have the 300 RUM and it's heavily altered too, so it can feed 4.00" cartridges...so it's high velocity with 250 Atips.
Right now I'm working on a high velocity load for a 358 Win in a 16" AR ! A "bunny load" as a friend described so he's gonna see my version of a bunny load. Question...Is it possible to reach 4000 fps with a 358 Winchester in a 16" AR? For 30 yard jackrabbit, type accuracy, with expendable LC brass.

 

[JAYgs8163]

 

[USAFRet]

Same way in my Grendel gasser, using 2000MR.

Nez, I got some 2000MR. I know this is off topic, but could you shoot me your load data?

 

[nralifer]

Mr. You're dreaming. Anyone who would attempt to shot an Elk at 900 yards is not only bemused, but unscrupulous. Tell about the 'cripples and unrecovered animals' you have left in your wake of unethical shooting of game?

Look at the 900 yd line, 1140+ ft-lbs of bullet energy. You need a 26 inch barrel and SRP brass with LVR powder. Not everyone is capable of a shot like that, but it is definitely possible. Need to pick the right conditions. The G7 BC quoted is one I have measured direct with my lab radar by a method which agrees very well with that of AB's Doppler. A friend of mine killed an Elk with one shot at 1225 yds with our195 gr BD2 bullet at 4500 ft with a 300WM and an MV of 2980 and a terminal velocity of 1775 fps producing similar bullet energy. He is quite an expert rifleman.

Mr. You're dreaming. Anyone who would attempt to shot an Elk at 900 yards is not only bemused, but unscrupulous. Tell about the 'cripples and unrecovered animals' you have left in your wake of unethical shooting of game?

 

[USAFRet]

Look at the 900 yd line, 1140+ ft-lbs of bullet energy. You need a 26 inch barrel and SRP brass with LVR powder. Not everyone is capable of a shot like that, but it is definitely possible. Need to pick the right conditions. The G7 BC quoted is one I have measured direct with my lab radar by a method which agrees very well with that of AB's Doppler. A friend of mine killed an Elk with one shot at 1225 yds with our195 gr BD2 bullet at 4500 ft with a 300WM and an MV of 2980 and a terminal velocity of 1775 fps producing similar bullet energy. He is quite an expert rifleman.

Just my thoughts, everyone should know their limits. Mine are not yours and visa versa. There are people that can shoot the same groups at 1000 yds that I shoot at 300. If you have the right bullet, caliber, velocity, energy and practice, your 1000 yard shot is just as "ethical" as my 300 yard shot. Hats off to folks that have that kind of talent and put in the training time.

 

[nralifer]

This is a very intresting thread with alot of good information. Cant wait to find some lvr and try it in my bolt gun and see what results I can get. With that has anyone tried using lvr in a ar10 platform? I am finishing my 20" 1:10 twist build and am wondering if its worth trying in the gas gun or not.

I found it works real well in the 243Win, 308 Win and the 300 WSM. Not so well in the 7mm08. Also shows promise in the 223. I can get sub-MOA from my AR and the 55 gr BD2. Don't have a lot of data for that cartridge though.

 

[nralifer]

Just my thoughts, everyone should know their limits. Mine are not yours and visa versa. There are people that can shoot the same groups at 1000 yds that I shoot at 300. If you have the right bullet, caliber, velocity, energy and practice, your 1000 yard shot is just as "ethical" as my 300 yard shot. Hats off to folks that have that kind of talent and put in the training time.

You are absolutely correct. Unless you can practice those kind of shots on steel, it's my opinion that one should make use of their hunting and stalking skills to get within a safe range. A successful stalk is just as satisfying as a successful long shot. It's reassuring to have a bullet that can do the long shots, though. At shorter distances they are supremely lethal and behave very reliably and consistently after impact.

 

[USAFRet]

You are absolutely correct. Unless you can practice those kind of shots on steel, it's my opinion that one should make use of their hunting and stalking skills to get within a safe range. A successful stalk is just as satisfying as a successful long shot. It's reassuring to have a bullet that can do the long shots, though. At shorter distances they are supremely lethal and behave very reliably and consistently after impact.

Yes sir! Agree 100%. Getting close makes for a more satisfying hunt. I love my 308 CVA Cascade. Absolute tack driver with 165 grain Accubonds with 43.5 grains of Varget. Hoping one of these days I get the chance to take it on an elk hunt.