I need help with barrel understanding

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Guest, Jul 12, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm going to start ordering parts for a new rifle build that I want to have done but I'd like to get a better understanding about some barrel questions I have.

    Since I have been a member here I have heard alot of talk about barrels with a 5R twist in them and how their better for velocity and bullet stability , I would think that maybe because that the lands are dircetly accross from a groove that this may but less stress on the bullet by way of comperssion but is their any real facts to this ?
    What benifit does a 5 groove have over a 3 groove ? I have barrels with 8,6,4 and 6 grooves but all are in differant calibers so no accurate compairison can be made in bore erosion , I can say that the 8 groove has shown alot of wear quickly for the caliber it is (260)I'm not sure if its from the material or the amout of grooves.
    I'm going to be building a 308 in a tactical version and I'd like to have it as accurate as possible so I'm not going to skimp on the tube , I was thinking either Kreiger or Hart due to their long great records but I have also heard so many great things about the Mike Rock barrels and Benchmark because of the 5R rifling.

    If any of you outstanding fellows can help me out or offer any advice or experiances it would be greatly apperciated.
     
  2. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    For a 308, you really can go wrong with any mentioned. I have used Douglas/hart/kreiger and will probably try Kostyshyn, Schneider and broughton in the near future.

    The rock 5r's get a little better velocity usually because they are supposedly a little tighter bored.

    you really can go wrong though.

    JB
     
  3. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

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    JD
    I can only speak for the Hart Barrel. A friend of mine has a barreled action that belonged to a member of LRH. It's a 700 action with a Hart heavy 4" straight from receiver with a straight taper to .950 (26"). It has a .340 neck chamber B.O. Metal with Robar finish. I just recently bedded it into an H.S tactical stock. It shoots better than it looks. He shoots factory ammo (B.H. or Federal) all shoots very well. The B.H. 175's shoot the best. The last time out dead calm no wind we both shot several groups around 1/2" at 200 yards. The Pact Crony also showed B.H. to be the most consistent ammo I've seen out of a box!! The 340 neck had a hard time with a batch of federal ammo that had a slight outside neck burr.
     
  4. NorthernSniper

    NorthernSniper Well-Known Member

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    O.K. but what about the 5R rifling? I am considering a Rock 5R this winter after Hunting season. A lot of members here are 5R rifling fans but what advantage does 5R have? I have heard 5R rifling improves accuracy because it produces uniform bullet deformation. Anybody?
     
  5. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

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    I've got a Broughton 5r in 30 cal 1/12 twist for a 300wsm (hunting rifle)and this is my first 5r barrel. Tim talked me more or less into it and one of the advantages is alittle more velocity and better suited for boat tail bullets. I can get my velocity right up with a 300wby. Obermeyer (sp) also makes 5r barrel but don't know about the wait. If it was me I'd kind of pick a bullet I want to shoot then call who ever you use and pick his brain as to what twist and grooves etc. Your limited as to 5r barrels manufactors but there are lot of good barrels out there. Well good luck.
     
  6. Stewart

    Stewart New Member

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    I have a Broughton "5c" barrel on my Remington 700 in 308. The 5c rifling is the same rifling type as the Rocks or Obermeyers. Practically zero fouling (100 shouts will clean up with a few patches and Sweets). As far as velocity goes, In a 24inch barrel im getting 2700fps with factory loaded Black Hills 175's. Accuracy is easily under 1/2 minute with the Black Hills 175 loading and thats about as good as I can hold anyway. Check out the Broughton Website (www.rifle-barrles.com)and shoot Tim North an Email if you have any questions. He is a super nice guy and will get back to you ASAP.

    [ 07-12-2004: Message edited by: Stewart ]
     
  7. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    The 5R does these things: (from Rock or Obemeyer)
    1.More velocity- they are tight bored.
    2. Deform the bullet less due to land opposing the groove and the leading edge of the land has an angle to it. Instead of a square 90 degree. I believe it is 80ish. Some people think the R means radius but it in fact means Russian. It was developed in this country by Boots Obermeyer. Rock learned from Boots and goot his blessing to do the 5R, the Broughton 5C is a little different as is the 5P from Schneider.
    3. They break in extemely quick 3-10 shots.
    4. They do last longer being cut rifled. The grooves are deeper than a button barrel.
    Mike Rock has a M24 barrel from the Army (He held the contract for the M24 sniper rifle) that has over 65,000 (no that is not a typo) rounds on it- it has 4" of rifling at the muzzle. It just broke the 1 MOA standard of the Army. How's that for barrel life.
    5. They clean extremely easy due to the sloped land- no corners to scrub crap out of.

    Hope this helps...I spent a week at Rocks shop making barrels and built over 300 rifles on a 5R barrel.
     
  8. NorthernSniper

    NorthernSniper Well-Known Member

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    O.K.! RockCreek It Shall Be! Can't wait to get started on this next project! [​IMG]
     
  9. winmagman

    winmagman Well-Known Member

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    N S
    I think you'll be very happy with that choice. I've spent some time at Mike's shop as well and he is one meticulous man, not happy till it's perfect.
    I have two of his barrels, one on a project I'm just finishing up and another in the closet waiting for funds for an action.
    Chris
     
  10. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    JD
    Im a little slow on your reply but maybe this will help
    Bench rest shooters seem to like hand cut rifle barrels with 3 or 5 groove.
    The way it was explained to me what the barrel did to the bullet affected it greatly
    once it leaves the crown because of balance
    at extreme RPMs .
    In other words Bench shooters like no freebore{most accurate way to engrave a bullet] hand cut rifleing in 3,5 and 7 groove {odd number grooves,splines,blades,spokes,etc all tend to be more balanced at higher rpms}
    and a single point cut crown.
    I am a hunter and some of these things are not practical "ie" No freebore, but the best
    barrel is a great place to start.
     
  11. Iron Worker

    Iron Worker Well-Known Member

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    To Chris Hey i shoot a 6x284,could those two barrel makers have a high velocity BBL for my application? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. subsonic

    subsonic Active Member

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    Another option is Border Barrels from Scotland he makes 5R rifling licensed to Boots Obermeyer
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I am not sure about the 5r style of barrel but personally, I have used enough 3 groove Lilja barrels to know they are very impressive performers.

    I have used them in rounds like a 30" 1-8" 6mm-284 loaded with the 107 gr Sierra Mk to 3600 fps.

    I have also used them in the 257 STW with a 1-10" that are getting 4100 fps with the 100 gr Ballsitic Tip and TSX as well as 3700 fps with the 115 gr Ballsitic Tip and partition.

    They are fast, tight bored barrels and the stainless barrels have really seemed to stand up well to the hell on barrels, 257 STW. Several of the rifles I have built at runnin gup close to 1000 rounds and still shooting well under 1 moa. Of course they all started out in the 1/4 to sub 1/2 moa range but still with that kind of load, one would expect to get some accuracy loss in 1000 rounds.

    Just one smiths opinion, I see no need to go with anything else as they have always made my customers and myself extremely happy.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  14. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Well why not talk to our very own barrel maker on this forum.. JR from Border Barrels, i have a 21.5" 30-06 5R from him that beats the previouse standard rifling(was a custom bbl) by a good 50fps despite bieng a good couple of inches shorter. I can recomend border barrels, support the guys who support or frequent this web site..
    Pete