I bet I'm not the only one using powder they've never used before

[Mike Matteson]

I have done a load of load development over the years. I set up with lower load and work up. If the case amount is in the 70+ grain area I increases by .5 grains at a time. I use the reloading manuals to set up, and go from there. I general I go pass what the manual calls out for max load. That can be over 5 grains a lot of the time. As I do that I am watching the primers, and for extractor marks. I generally don't get to the extractor marks. The flatten primers tell me where I am at. It program is just another item to look at and get some info on it.
What I have being built is a 6mm/280AI rifle in a 30" barrel. So it's a little out in wildcat field.

 

[Seabeeken]

Well said Doc and spot on. I use Barnes bullets for hunting and also need to jack up the start pressure to 6500.

mike, that's gonna be a scooter. I think I already posted this but IME, by the time you are seeing extractor marks, you are already well over pressure. In the case of my 250ai, I was at 74,000 when those marks appeared. Case head expansion should be a much better method to measure pressure.
I load more wildcats than saami cartridges. They are both fun and a pita at times

 

[L.Sherm]

If you have been using RL22 i would switch over to RL23. In my opinion its hands down better than 22 in every aspect.
Of course when you can find it.

 

[sfdoc2000]

Mike, if you are flattening primers and getting extractor marks you are over pressure, like in the 70K psi range as Seabeeken indicated. Take your measured velocity and enter the loading parameters, (COAL, measured case length and fired volume, barrel length, measured velocity, ambient temperature, and powder charge) into QL and you can now tweak the burn rate coefficient so that the predicted muzzle velocity is the same as your measured muzzle velocity. That will give you the calculated chamber pressure. If if is over 65K psi then you may need to back down on the load. I usually don't like to exceed 60K. My brass lasts a lot longer staying below this.
I agree that .5 grain steps is OK in large chambers, ie over 70 grain loads, for a start test ladder but when you get to the second trial .3 or even .2 will be appropriate since you will have a better idea what is the optimal load range for the combination you are using. I can usually hit the optimal charge with 2 trips to the range. Then the fun of varying the seating depth lets me get to the best grouping. Load development with QL should not take over 4-5 trips to the range from start to finish.
Another thing you can do with the simulation is to increase the charge to where your predicted muzzle velocity is giving a calculated pressure over 70K. If you are at the range and getting MV's greater than what is predicted by QL for a 70K PSI, then stop firing those loads and use lower powder weights.
Some brass is more tolerant of high pressures. My Lake City Match .308 brass cases from the late 1980 time frame when I was shooting with our State National Guard High Power Team, uses a very thick case and tolerates much higher than expected pressures. Lapua states their brass will tolerate 20% over pressure. Cheap brass will usually not tolerate these higher pressures.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I go by flatten primes. Not even creator primers. If I recall the 2 times I blow a primer out of the case there were ejector mark too. I do watch for ejector marks at the same time, in case I missed something. I haven't been the ejector marks in a very long time. That was the reason I stop using IMR powders for the most part, because they were temperature unstable. That where I got into trouble. Other than that I haven't created ejector marks after that. As I said or think I said if the case handles 70+ grains, I general increase powder loads by .5 grs at a time, below that .025 grs. I only load one case at the different charge weight, and all the cases are marked to note the order to fire in. The only IMR 4064 I use is in my 220 swift. There a lot of Reloader powders that aren't very temperature stable either. I been reloading for almost 60 years now. That doesn't mean that I know everything or anything about reloading by a long shot. Still on the learning curve at 73. Still having rifle being built or changing out barrels. I don't like slim barrels, and short barrels. 26"+ is my rule of thumb. light trigger pulls in the oz, and bedded action go without saying. As far as brass goes, changing over either Peterson or Lapua as I can get them. I have learned a lot over the past years here and thank the people here. I measure and balance beam all my powders.

 

[LVJ76]

I would say that the 1 or 2 # would give you an ideal as to what it will do for you. Getting 8lbs or more could be a waste of money if the powder doesn't do anything for you. A great many years ago I used IMR powder in 4350 & 4831. Found the extreme temperature with those powders. Gave away about 16 lbs of it. So if you like to buy 8lbs + and fine out it doesn't work you, then what.

I think many of us used the old IMR powders and and knew about the pressure and POI changes with higher temperarures. I used IMR-4350 up until a few weeks ago because no other powder would give me the accuracy it did. I also know very well how to manage it in higher temps and its because I've used it for a long time, I provably know it better than I know myself LOL.

I have decided to try a couple different more temp stable powders and will see how that goes.

You make a great point in getting a lb or two of a powder to try it first before getting stuck with a bunch of it and not be able to use it. In my case there are powders that I can use in three different rifles so the odds of it working on one are pretty good, but not everyone has this option. Also if you get just get one lb and it works, it provably won't be easy to find again or at least for a while.

Unfortunately the current situation complicates things a bit.

 

[Mike Matteson]

That's the problem, can't get hardly anything presently. The manufactures talk it up on how they are running 24/7, but still no powder or primers. Brass is short too. I can't believe there that many more hand loader out there now. It use to be petty cheap to set up for reloading, but now that has changed. If going top of the line it's thousands of dollars to set up. I know, because I am upgrading my reloading equipment presently. Don't get me wrong I am glad for the better equipment that out there. Talking about costs, and hand loading it's somewhere $45 to $60 for a box of presently. Adding shipping, Hazmat, sales tax into the picture. When I started I could load for less than .10 per round in my old 300 H & H Mag. That was $0.75 per hundred primers, $2. for a1# can of powder, and about $3. for hundreds Sierra Bullets. My how things have changed. It still takes a days work to buy that even now. It hasn't change much

 

[sfdoc2000]

Yes, Mike and in 1975 I bought my first home, a 2,000 square foot home in Orlando, Florida with 9 bearing orange trees on a 1/2 acre of property for a whopping $19,000. That same home now is over $400,000. My new 1967 Chevelle SS-396 with the 365 HP engine and the Muncie 4 speed fully decked out was $4000. Now you can't touch a high end car for less than $40,000.
Just three years ago before the recent madness, I bought a brick of CCI BR-4 primers for $56.95. A 1# can of Varget was $24.50 and Berger bullets were $40.00. All at my local gun shop. I guess we all have to learn to shop and trade more efficiently these days.
On the other side of the coin, my first IBM PC with 640K of RAM, and a 10 MB hard drive was nearly $10,000. My current laptop has a 4 core processor, 2TB hard drive, 32GB of RAM and cost less than $500. Go figure.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I said it another post; a truly accurate rifle will shoot other powders accurately compared to the powder you used to bless it with holy water and declare it "accurate." I have about 14 lbs of Retumbo, but only shoot it in one of my Lapuas; my other Lapua likes 8133 (just got back from LR shooting in the desert this am with it). One RUM likes 8133 while the other likes N570. I also have 8 lbs of RL 26 I can try. Anyone use that in a RUM shooting 200 to 230 grain bullets?

yup... I've got 2 300rum rifles that toss 225 Hornady hpbt match. They both are running .5 to .6 moa with that pill and rl33 with a 215 lighting the fire. Rl33 got a bad rap from a few that were pushing it far too hard. It will hit 3,000 fps with a 225 in a 300rum safely in all conditions. Try for much more and you will be tearing up brass.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I was lucky my elk hunting buddy gave me two lbs of 7828 which has the same burn rate as RL 25 ,also gave me 400 215's
RL 25 on Gun Broker about $100 for one lb.

I just go to my basement for either 7828 or rl25. I don't burn a ton of either and have a 5+ # jug of 25 and a keg of 7828 there. I typically keep a year or two's worth of heavy shooting in components just in case the market goes upside down like it has since October.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I have powder too, and primers, brass. It's in pistol/shotgun, and rifle powder, Primers for small rifle, L rifle, pistol, and shotgun.
"BUT" adding another rifle in 6mm/280AI, and having to get some additional powder for it. Acquiring powders is being the problem for me presently. Primers I have a fairly wide spread of them. I normally use Fed-210 primers in most of my loads. So I not hurting for items to load with. Hoping to get some Peterson 280AI cases. Be on the order list for about 3 months now, and wish lists too.
As far as houses going my 2nd home I purchase in 1978, and now there less than half the time. I have change my address about 13 years ago to Montana. I couldn't stand California. My wife retired a couple years back, and likes Montana. Can't afford 2 homes. So we are getting ready to sell out in Mex-ilfornia. I had the house build on 1.25 ac in 1978. I still owe some on it, because of helping putting two boys thru college, One with an MBA, and the other a DDS and specializes after that. Money well spent.
Presently healing up after a right shoulder replacement. so it's got me slowed up. It's coming along fine.
I don't like what's going on here in the USA presently, and I didn't vote that way either. Take care.

 

[Seabeeken]

That's the problem, can't get hardly anything presently. The manufactures talk it up on how they are running 24/7, but still no powder or primers. Brass is short too. I can't believe there that many more hand loader out there now. It use to be petty cheap to set up for reloading, but now that has changed. If going top of the line it's thousands of dollars to set up. I know, because I am upgrading my reloading equipment presently. Don't get me wrong I am glad for the better equipment that out there. Talking about costs, and hand loading it's somewhere $45 to $60 for a box of presently. Adding shipping, Hazmat, sales tax into the picture. When I started I could load for less than .10 per round in my old 300 H & H Mag. That was $0.75 per hundred primers, $2. for a1# can of powder, and about $3. for hundreds Sierra Bullets. My how things have changed. It still takes a days work to buy that even now. It hasn't change much

When I started hand loading in 1974, I could handload a 20 round box of 243 or 270 for $5. Powder was about $8/#, primers $.01/ea, bullets $8-10/100 depending on brand. The big savings was brass. Cheaper to buy factory ammo in some cartridges now. Im in good shape with components but then I don't have to shoot 1000 rounds a week either. Saw some cops at the range a few months ago firing full auto uzis. I bet they went thru 2000+ rounds of 9mm.