How "important" are certain details when reloading?

[trophyhusband]

To answer your question in a very legit and simplified response.....Everything is important when reloading. There are no minor details that should be left out, overlooked, or skipped. That's how people end up blowing up a gun, and hurting themselves.

"Important" may not have been the best word to use. Some of the details have a greater effect on accuracy though and, being a beginner, I'm just trying to get a feel for what tolerances I should be looking for at this stage of the game. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm looking to cut corners.

 

[trophyhusband]

When developing a load, the more things are consistent, the easier a time you'll have at finding that honey load.

I'd sort out the longest cases, all being either new or once fired and trim them all to the trim to length. You can always use the shorter ones for production, they'll be accurate enough to kill. Trim, chamfer, debur, uniform all the R&D cases, making everything as uniform as you can.

This makes a lot of sense and sounds like the best plan for me.

 

[acloco]

Have found the best accuracy by controlling neck tension and runout of loaded round.


Weighing brass is ok, but does not give the true internal dimension of each case. I usually use the bottom & top 10 % of weight sorted brass as "barrel warmers" or fouling shots.

 

[trophyhusband]

Trophy- you say what caliber . you do not say what rifle/scope. i like the nosler partition for hunting. the last elk i killed was with a 180 partition. they do not group as well as others ( no matter what details you do) still they are great for hunting. use WLRM , 9.5M OR CCI250 primers. weight sorting the brass may help with the vertical . 1.25 moa is plenty for elk. i have rifles that do real good ( .5-.6) but do not do as well at 400.

It's a Remington Model 721. The scope I currently have on it is a Leupold VX-II 3x9, probably not the best for long range but it's what I have for the time being.

 

[AZShooter]

Trophy,

I think you will do fine making your first loads for this rifle. You asked the procedure with powder charges and seating depth.

This is what I suggest: Choose the seating depth that will fit and feed from the magazine AND not touch the rifling. You might want to take some of your shortest cases and make a few dummy rounds to test the feeding. After you have established a workable COAL (cartridge overall length) then make a series of 4-6 loaded cases with different powder charges. I think for this size case 1 grain increments will be fine. Start low and work up to the highest powder suggested by a loading book like Nosler's or the powder manufacturer's data.

If you are not happy with the groups size you could alter seating depth. Take the tightest group and make more loaded ammo with bullets seated more deeply in .005 increments. This is a real pain if you don't have a competition seating die. It doesn't always work but generally as you shoot incrementally deeper seated bullets you may begin to see a trend in groups size. I would think you would begin to see the group size change within 5 or 6 seating depth increments. Once you find a better shooting seating depth you must be able to set the seating die to that depth accurately. If you don't have a bullet seating depth comparator or similar device you are wasting your time. You can make one or buy one but it would be essential to making accurate seating depths as well as later when you setup your seating die in the future.

Two versions of comparators:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...insert-style-bullet-comparator-prod34014.aspx

You could make one of these: http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...r-hex-style-bullet-comparators-prod34262.aspx
You need a drill size a few thousandths smaller than .308".

It wasn't mentioned but your rifle should be sound. The action screws should be tight, as should the scope rings and bases. Barrel should be clean. Then your load work up won't be tainted by performance issues caused by the rifle.

Good shooting! Come back and share your results.

 

[benchracer]

Here are some details that I have found to be important:

1. Consult multiple sources for your load data. This will aid in choosing an optimum powder and in getting an idea of where your max load should be.

2. Choose the slowest burning/highest load density powder that is practical for your planned combination. For most applications involving accuracy, I have had my best results with extruded type propellants rather than ball type propellants.

3. Whatever brass you use, make sure that you have enough for testing and to load the desired number of rounds after you settle on your final load. Ditto on brand and type of primer. Staying within the same lot of powder is desireable here, too. Some powders have problems with lot-to-lot consistency, so be careful when going to the next can of powder.

4. Using a starting load, determine the optimum seating depth for your desired bullet in your rifle. Do that by following the instructions found in the Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD Bullets in Your Rifle sticky posted at the top of this forum. I have found that procedure to work with any bullet. Once you have determined optimum seating depth, you can experiment with powders and primers. The best seating depth with a given bullet will remain a constant.

5. After determining optimum seating depth, do your powder charge workup in whatever way makes sense to you. Some people do ladder tests, others work up to max in .5 grain increments, some use the OCW (optimum charge weight) method, etc. Some people shoot 3 shot groups, some 5 shot groups, some 10 shot groups. Whatever floats you boat. Regardless of how you do it, HAND WEIGH ALL OF YOUR POWDER CHARGES!

There are other things people do in addition to the above. A lot of the extra steps are things copied from benchrest shooters. IMO, most of the benchrest loading techniques do little or nothing for you if you are shooting a factory rifle with a factory barrel.

As you gain experience, you can always tweak your loading technique and experiment with various things. That's part of the journey for most of us. Starting with a solid basic technique will pay dividends as you progress.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[MudRunner2005]

"Important" may not have been the best word to use. Some of the details have a greater effect on accuracy though and, being a beginner, I'm just trying to get a feel for what tolerances I should be looking for at this stage of the game. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm looking to cut corners.

Thanks for clarifying, now I understand what you were asking.

What I've found to be the 3 most important factors in reloading are:

1) identical powder charge
2) bullet seating depth
3) neck-tension on the bullet.

Also, you will get more accuracy out of once-fired brass through your rifle than you will with new brass, as it will have fire-formed to your chamber.

 

[trophyhusband]

Have found the best accuracy by controlling neck tension and runout of loaded round.

Neck tension isn't something I've looked into in great detail yet. My limited understanding is that consistent case length, consistent lube technique, and a properly set up press are the key factors there. Am I correct or is there more to it than that?

As far as runout, I thought that was something that came into play when looking for much more precision than I'm after at this point. Don't get me wrong, eventually I'll be after much higher precision down the road but for my current goals is it something I really need to bother with?

 

[trophyhusband]

Trophy,

This is what I suggest: Choose the seating depth that will fit and feed from the magazine AND not touch the rifling. You might want to take some of your shortest cases and make a few dummy rounds to test the feeding. After you have established a workable COAL (cartridge overall length) then make a series of 4-6 loaded cases with different powder charges. I think for this size case 1 grain increments will be fine. Start low and work up to the highest powder suggested by a loading book like Nosler's or the powder manufacturer's data.

I have an OAL gauge and comparitor so I've got that covered. I just need to practice a little more taking the measurement. My measurements are getting much more consistent though and I'm pretty comfortable with the starting OAL I've come up with, but I'm still going to take the measurement 10-20 more times before loading my first rounds just to be sure.

You suggested working out the powder charge first and then refining the OAL. Is there a reason for doing one before the other, or is it just personal preference?

 

[benchracer]

You suggested working out the powder charge first and then refining the OAL. Is there a reason for doing one before the other, or is it just personal preference?

Many people view the powder charge workup at the "coarse adjustment" in the system and the seating depth workup at the "fine adjustment". There really isn't a wrong answer. You can do it either way.

I switched to doing the seating depth test first because I found that the optimum seating depth stayed the same regardless of powder and primer used. Establishing the seating depth first allows me to experiment with different powders and/or primers without the need to tune seating depth each time.

The second reason I started testing seating depth first has to do with the effect that seating depth has on pressure. If my best accuracy node in my powder charge workup is found right at the edge of max pressure, but my optimum seating depth requires me to seat the bullet deeper, I run increased risk of overpressure. Establishing seating depth first allows me to run up to max powder charges with a little less risk, IMO.

 

[Bart B]

In my experience and observations shooting matches and winning a few as well as noting what others do, my list of "important details" listed in order are as follows for developing a load for a given rifle:

1. Bullets must be a few to several ten-thousandths inch larger than groove diameter and be well balanced; i.e. true match grade with a good track record.

2. Powder choice has to produce uniform pressure curve shapes; medium speed ones for the cartridge seem to work best.

3. Primer must uniformly ignite the powder such that it burns the same from shot to shot; milder ones oft times do this better than hotter ones.

4. Case must fit the chamber such that no binding of the bolt happens when the round's loaded. 1/1000ths inch of head clearance is good enough.

5. Case neck has to have less than 1/1000th inch spread in thickness and be well centered on bottleneck case shoulders on those headspacing on their shoulder; new cases shoot 95% as accurate as fired ones in this regard. Note: bottleneck cases headspacing on their shoulder center up front in the chamber at the shoulder by in-line ejectors and firing pins pushing them there; doesn't matter how much clearance their is between the case body and chamber wall.

6. Bullet runout less than 1% of bullet diameter; seating them so they gently jam into the lands helps with some, others need a few thousandths jump.

7. Case weight spread of 1% is plenty good enough.

8. Powder charge weight spread can be as much as 2/10ths or 3/10ths grain and with the right powder and weight for the bullet, sub 1 MOA accuracy at 1000 yards at worst is easily attainable. Some lots of ammo with a 3/10ths grain spread about 45 grains have shot 1/2 MOA or better at worst 600 yards down range.

9. Case neck tension spread should be 20% about a 5 to 10 pound extraction force.

There's been dozens of thousands of rounds commercially loaded oh high speed machines for competition with brand new cases with a 3% spread in case weight and metered powder charges that shot 1/2 to 2/3 MOA at 600 yards in all sorts of barrels in different rifles. Given that, if you can handload ammo yourself, you can do that well easily. Just use the right tools the right way with the right components.

 

[AZShooter]

I like to start with a seating depth and work up powder first because the seating depth selection will often work without any changes. The Berger hybrids are really good in that regard.
But accubonds, ballistic tips and other brands have not required seating depth changes.

Benchracer,

Not to start an argument but not sure seating deeper would necessarily raise pressures. Sure the powder is put into a smaller space but the bullet is experiencing a some freebore. This could make for an interesting discussion apart from this thread. I'd would chance a guess that it would depend and the pressures could go up or down based on individual rifle/brass/bullet/powder combos.

 

[benchracer]

I like to start with a seating depth and work up powder first because the seating depth selection will often work without any changes. The Berger hybrids are really good in that regard.
But accubonds, ballistic tips and other brands have not required seating depth changes.

Benchracer,

Not to start an argument but not sure seating deeper would necessarily raise pressures. Sure the powder is put into a smaller space but the bullet is experiencing a some freebore. This could make for an interesting discussion apart from this thread. I'd would chance a guess that it would depend and the pressures could go up or down based on individual rifle/brass/bullet/powder combos.

My experience with the Berger hybrids mirrors yours. As they become more widely available, I intend to use them in place of VLD's. I really like the results I have gotten using Hybrids so far.

I don't think we are very far apart, if at all, regarding the effects of seating depth on pressure. You are undoubtedly correct that there are multiple variables involved. I am by no means an expert on the subject. These guys know more than I do:


Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO) – Part 1 | Berger Bullets

What they have to say touches on the pressure effects of both seating depth and distance to the rifling, like you mentioned. It is possible that the two variables could cancel each other out.

However, my seating depth tests cover .120 difference from one end to the other. Couple that with the fact that I often find myself working with cartridges like 6.5x55, 6.5-284, and .264 Win Mag, all of which have pretty sketchy reloading data available. I tend to push all three of them toward max loading levels. The seating depth variables may cancel one another out and they may not. My problem is that I don't know which way it's going to go and I don't want to find out the hard way that I guessed wrong. I prefer to err on the side of caution, taking into account my own loading methods and goals.

As I stated before, I don't really think there is a right or wrong answer to which order you test in. I just know which one I feel more comfortable with. I have done it both ways, but the way I am doing it now works better for me.

 

[trophyhusband]

Last night I loaded up 18 rounds. I used the same powder charge for all of them. I loaded 6 at .015 off the lands, 6 at .025 off, and 6 at .035 off. I'm heading out back this morning to fire them off. Be back in a bit with the results.