Come on Muddy dont sugar coat it tell us what you really thinkSo everyones shorts are in a wad. Over what? Self acclaimed expert that, wrote an opinion, circa 2016, IMO poorly researched in copper bullets even during that timeline.
First the term "homogenous": of uniform structure or composition throughout. Really?
Foster alleged copper bullets are all the same chemical composition or alloy. Really? IMO Anybody that claims his level of expertise absolutely knows this is a blatant and deliberate statement of misinformation. The whole concept of "copper" bullets unique performance is design by structure, velocity and alloy. The author knows that based by his self acclaimed expertise but yet chose to ignore the basic knowledge of bullet construction.
Furthermore, Dangerous Game solids are just that, solids with minimal expansion designed for penetration first. So is this use inhumane? To whom? Animal or a dead hunter that uses anything else? Where is that point of discussion?
The rash and irresponsible use of flame thrower words was intentional without thought or consequences.
So virtually everyone on LRH that has shot copper knows this shotgun statement is egregiously inaccurate and
.
Its unfortunate the author has a platform for this
So what am I going to do? Absolutely nothing, other than post counter opinion that is based upon my experiences of 50+ years of "kills" that I post mortem even when I was 21 years old. Am I an expert? Nope just practical and and have a really good nose for
Homogenous copper bullets can be inhumane
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Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
Sorry, sometime just too bashful to truly say what I think and good thing I didn't or Len would likely not take kindly to it.
Shoot em the head and thats the end of the discussion, if its long range just have to work on your shooting skills ha ha
Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
"Disagreement is fine and healthy. There are a lot of divergent opinions on everything we do in the outdoors and across everyday life. I don't have to convince anyone for me to be right for myself. I do not need justification for my position since I am the one that has to live with it. We need to follow our own path and be receptive and respectful of other points of view. Therein lies the problem."
I recently made this statement and I would be truly receptive of any opinion IF it it was based on solid science and data.
There is a segment on NFL Monday Night called C'Mon Man which seems perfect for this position.
I recently made this statement and I would be truly receptive of any opinion IF it it was based on solid science and data.
There is a segment on NFL Monday Night called C'Mon Man which seems perfect for this position.
Overall, the article was written with the authors experiences with a heavy bias as a plea to not ban lead bullets. It was aimed to a non-hunting community, those without mono metal bullet experiences to understand that their can be "risks" in their agenda.
So my primary critique, is that it the article is not intended to be a trade study but to sway unexperienced opinion. There are quite a few thing things in there that definitely make me roll my eyes that to me are deceptive.
- Missing vitals (lead > copper) - very situational;
- Velocity - We all agree that velocity is king in mono's, but if hunters shoot outside their recommended limits it is on their ethics not the bullet
- Velocity 2 - Coppers can only be shot slow due to taking up case capacity: Eye roll
- Some copper lots or brands do not expand - This happens to lead as well...
- Accuracy - Copper can produce extremely poor accuracy: Sure, so can lead. Copper can also produce sub 1/4 MOA.
Those are just a few, again i completely get the purpose of the article as I do not agree lead should be banned.
So my primary critique, is that it the article is not intended to be a trade study but to sway unexperienced opinion. There are quite a few thing things in there that definitely make me roll my eyes that to me are deceptive.
- Missing vitals (lead > copper) - very situational;
- Velocity - We all agree that velocity is king in mono's, but if hunters shoot outside their recommended limits it is on their ethics not the bullet
- Velocity 2 - Coppers can only be shot slow due to taking up case capacity: Eye roll
- Some copper lots or brands do not expand - This happens to lead as well...
- Accuracy - Copper can produce extremely poor accuracy: Sure, so can lead. Copper can also produce sub 1/4 MOA.
Those are just a few, again i completely get the purpose of the article as I do not agree lead should be banned.
This is such a great article and validates everything that I believe. Thanks for sharing!
There are a lot of people who use monos, including yours, that have had unsatifactory results. I am one of them. Those reviews regarding your bullets are very seldom found on this forum, but are common on other forums. I think the more bullet manufacturers the better, so I am not disparaging your company.
I don't see anything wrong with sharing this article on the forum. People should be able to have access to all different opinions and experiences so they can make educated decisions for themselves. Seems like you are trying to come in and shut down the thread because the article doesn't align with your narrative. That's unfortunate imo…
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There are a lot of people who use monos, including yours, that have had unsatifactory results. I am one of them. Those reviews regarding your bullets are very seldom found on this forum, but are common on other forums. I think the more bullet manufacturers the better, so I am not disparaging your company. My experience has been similar to those noted in the article.
Good to see you are still reading my posts
Creedmoor shooter
Well-Known Member
Im not sure I can say I've seen a bad review on a Hammer. The only time I've seen bad results with them is when people tried to push the limits of the set up. Everything I've seen and heard about them have always been positive
Hammer bullet concern
Found this on utube. It was made 2 months ago. It shows a hammer bullet failing to expand and tumbling. I just finished load workups, do i need to be worried this hunting season? My thoughts are that it is a heavy long bullet and perhaps it was marginally stable to start. I dont know. Ive...
Once I read this ..... Questions immediately arose as to what "entity" financed this guys "Terminal Research" on copper bullets
Follow the money ....... something is not right with this, far too much bias using colorful wording in order to sway the reader
If scientists can be bought ... so can "Terminal Researchers" .... His self aggrandizing and posing is vomit inducing
There is a hidden agenda here ...
"My name is Nathan Foster blah, blah, blah ...
I am now considered a world leading expert in the field of terminal ballistics and consult with companies and GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS worldwide . If you are a policy maker who has made or is about to make decisions about ammunition and have NOT CONSULTED WITH ME, I can honestly state that you are making uninformed decisions. There is no other researcher on the planet with my level of experience or skill in this subject. "
That last two sentences did it for me ...
This guy is obviously bought & paid for ....
Follow the money ....... something is not right with this, far too much bias using colorful wording in order to sway the reader
If scientists can be bought ... so can "Terminal Researchers" .... His self aggrandizing and posing is vomit inducing
There is a hidden agenda here ...
"My name is Nathan Foster blah, blah, blah ...
I am now considered a world leading expert in the field of terminal ballistics and consult with companies and GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS worldwide . If you are a policy maker who has made or is about to make decisions about ammunition and have NOT CONSULTED WITH ME, I can honestly state that you are making uninformed decisions. There is no other researcher on the planet with my level of experience or skill in this subject. "
That last two sentences did it for me ...
This guy is obviously bought & paid for ....
I remember seeing this video did anyone ever find out what twist rate barrel the test was performed with or are we just assuming it was appropriate for the bullet being tested as I understand it when using these bullets twist is very criticalHammer bullet concern
Found this on utube. It was made 2 months ago. It shows a hammer bullet failing to expand and tumbling. I just finished load workups, do i need to be worried this hunting season? My thoughts are that it is a heavy long bullet and perhaps it was marginally stable to start. I dont know. Ive...www.longrangehunting.com
DoneNOut
Well-Known Member
If I was at some conference and the presenter stated that, I would walk out of the room.
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