HNDLDR
Well-Known Member
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HBN Bullet Coating
- Thread starter Coyote Shadow Tracker
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Limited (.308 and .338LM). Might give you an idea though. String to the right is for the coated bullets. Sorry those got sorted velocity high to low.
So if reading your info correctly there isn't more than 20 fps difference in factory vs coated bullets?
65WSM
Well-Known Member
Quickload predictive software has a provision for coated bullets. It predicts both lower peak pressure and lower velocities for the same powder charge with coated bullets. The "coated" bullet variable is user tunable. I tune the "coated" variable to the measured velocity as I continue to load that bullet batch and powder. Quickload can be very accurate at predicting velocities. Quickload is an important tool to those of us who load wildcat cartridges or new ones that have little handloading data available. It is also useful for old cartridges with old data, like .270 Winchester and .35 Whelen, that benefit greatly from newer powders like Reloader 16, 17 and 23, STABall, etc. I got the 180 Barnes to fly at 3030fps from a 22" 35 Whelen for a hunter who is stalking late season mule deer in Montana as I write this. I got 3220 fps from R-17 with 129 gr Barnes LRX from a 24 inch barrel. Both bullets were HBN coated. The pressures may have been limiting, without the coating, to smooth out the peak.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
That's a good one for sure. I reference that video in this more in-depth post I made not too long ago in the interest of offering my own contribution to this forum's knowledge and experience base just in case anyone found it helpful. I know I sure have found this forum and it's members helpful to me.
My HBN experience and process
@K.E.C., this one’s for you by request but figured I’d make a dedicated post instead of taking over the copper fouling thread, and, if anyone else is interested, it’s here for them. First off, I wish to acknowledge sources of useful information to me. David Tubb is THE MAN when it comes to the...
Calvin45 your way is the way I am going to be doing from now on.I tried it my way a few years ago and I can now see I used TOO much HBN.
I cleaned HBN off bullets and it appears you don't have to.I also cleaned my barrels and swabbed them with HBN and will re-try the process.
Thanks for the posts to all that contributed.
Old Rooster
I cleaned HBN off bullets and it appears you don't have to.I also cleaned my barrels and swabbed them with HBN and will re-try the process.
Thanks for the posts to all that contributed.
Old Rooster
65WSM
Well-Known Member
What if cleaning a rifle bore, at the end of your cases, is brushing out a slippery white ring, instead of a diamond hard black ring? What if HBN or some other bullet coating, can reduce the strokes with a brush or the number of patches by half? What if I believe it is more like two thirds less trouble to clean a rifle bore after fifty rounds?
My bore scope will go down twenty caliber barrels but not the seventeens. My gunsmith and I were curious after my .17 Remington would not hold groups better than 5 inches at 300 yards. We performed an autopsy. We found that the rifling was gone for two inches past the chamber. Secondly, we found the first half of the inside of the bore was coated white. The muzzle half of the barrel was heavily copper coated. My conclusion is that I was never able to get enough HBN on the 25 grain bullets to be helpful for the second half of the bore. Each bullet ran out of white HBN and deposited copper from there forward. Handloading the .17 Remington, I conclude that it is very overbore. I would build a .17 -222 Remington, at most, if I had it to do again. I never did fill the case, every cartridge rattled when you shook it, yet the tiny 25 gr bullets traveled well in excess of 4000 fps. I have a .17 Fireball now, and find it is more accurate and about 200 fps slower with a 26 inch factory Remington barrel. And I fill the cases.
My bore scope will go down twenty caliber barrels but not the seventeens. My gunsmith and I were curious after my .17 Remington would not hold groups better than 5 inches at 300 yards. We performed an autopsy. We found that the rifling was gone for two inches past the chamber. Secondly, we found the first half of the inside of the bore was coated white. The muzzle half of the barrel was heavily copper coated. My conclusion is that I was never able to get enough HBN on the 25 grain bullets to be helpful for the second half of the bore. Each bullet ran out of white HBN and deposited copper from there forward. Handloading the .17 Remington, I conclude that it is very overbore. I would build a .17 -222 Remington, at most, if I had it to do again. I never did fill the case, every cartridge rattled when you shook it, yet the tiny 25 gr bullets traveled well in excess of 4000 fps. I have a .17 Fireball now, and find it is more accurate and about 200 fps slower with a 26 inch factory Remington barrel. And I fill the cases.
That's why this forum is so great!We get the experience of so may people and we all benefit from it.Thanks 65WSM and everyone that has contributed to this conversation.
Brother, I can only say what my personal chronograph recorded and what I put into my notes on a given day. I remember shooting across the chronograph just to see that difference first-hand. As "memory serves" it was right about 50 fps on the .338 on back-to-back shots in both directions (HBN --> Uncoated | Uncoated --> HBN). The important step people 'might' overlook is that I cleaned (at least I tried) all of the HBN out of the barrel when I reversed direction. It was a memory note ... not something I documented.
If it was me looking at that data above, the
is at the ES/SD.I recorded three groups of HBN coated .338 on that day. This was the in-betweener:
I wish I kept the pictures of the holes those groups made. I stopped after they started to 'open up' from a ragged hole to a very tight cloverleaf. I honestly thought it was heat that caused the dispersion.
Other takeaways from what I posted: The side-by-sides are data that is years apart though the primers and powder probably came from the same brick and keg pallet. The bullets are definitely from the same order, but I weight sort and that could have caused some variance. Can't say it was the same chronograph between old and new
. Sunlight might have thrown the chronograph a bit or it might have been off-positioned enough to cause a variation too. The chronograph sits about 17 meters from the muzzle.I never shoot un-coated bullets anymore, so records of those 5-shot groups is all the data I will ever have to share.
That is what I was looking for. I was looking to see the drop in fps and if it was drastic enough how much powder to regain the velocity .Brother, I can only say what my personal chronograph recorded and what I put into my notes on a given day. I remember shooting across the chronograph just to see that difference first-hand. As "memory serves" it was right about 50 fps on the .338 on back-to-back shots in both directions (HBN --> Uncoated | Uncoated --> HBN). The important step people 'might' overlook is that I cleaned (at least I tried) all of the HBN out of the barrel when I reversed direction. It was a memory note ... not something I documented.
If it was me looking at that data above, the
I recorded three groups of HBN coated .338 on that day. This was the in-betweener:
View attachment 515096
I wish I kept the pictures of the holes those groups made. I stopped after they started to 'open up' from a ragged hole to a very tight cloverleaf. I honestly thought it was heat that caused the dispersion.
Other takeaways from what I posted: The side-by-sides are data that is years apart though the primers and powder probably came from the same brick and keg pallet. The bullets are definitely from the same order, but I weight sort and that could have caused some variance. Can't say it was the same chronograph between old and new
I never shoot un-coated bullets anymore, so records of those 5-shot groups is all the data I will ever have to share.
It's usually about two grains more of powder to get back the velocity. I was able to up my powder charge and get to the next node in my rifle with it. I do recommend working up your load without the coating and then fine tuning with HBN. I've tried doing initial load work up with coated bullets and had luck, but you never know where the true pressure point is and if you have any issues with the load work up, just gives you another variable.
I've got my loads for my current guns, now it is time to order Hbn and see how the loads do afterwards and make any adjustments as needed
No need to go broke buying a large quantity. I've still got a quarter of that container left unused after the better part of a decade. I initially put a 'judicious' amount into an empty 1lb jug along with ceramic tumbling media (wasteful on my part). I add a teaspoon to the powder jug 'from time-to-time'.
Don't forget your barrel!!
Attachments
10-4 I'd rather order more than have an excessive amount sitting on my shelf
