For 7 mm enthusiasts

[Varberger757]

This thread should be hopefully an inspiration for the big community of 7mm enthusiasts on this site. Personally, I do have a long experience with the European 284s like the 7 x 57 and 7 x 64 (65R), great rounds. I always wanted a 7 RM badly and still do, but since I'm on this site and reading about the 7 STW on almost daily basis, I'm going to be addicted… Especially, because the round is quite unknown over here.
The same must be surely the case with the 7 x 66 Super Express vom Hofe in the USA. The 7 x 66 SE v H is a beltless magnum and was invented in 1955 by Walter Gehmann. http://www.gehmann.com The "mothercase" is the .404 Jeffrey. It's a cartridge constructed for the purpose of long-range hunting and a very potent round.The 7 x 66 SE v H is also no common product in Europe either which makes this round extremely exciting.

If requested the interested shooter will find companies like Horneber who delivers ready brass and fab – ammo can be bought at WR (Wolfgang Romey) with Woodleigh bullets. Over here in Europe, it's no issue to get a chamber reamed for this particular calibre, and surely not in the USA either. Any kind of Mauser action or its relatives like Rem 700, Win, etc. will fit perfectly.
The performance of the 7 x 66 SE v H is told to be between the 7 RM and 7 STW. I doubt that and mean that it could close up to the 7 STW with the right hand loads.
Since there are so many highly experienced guys in reloading on LRH's site, I thought they might get it done and push the 7 x 66 SE to its limits. I'm thinking f. ex. about the use of slow burning powders in combination with bullets like the Bergers and Accubonds etc.
[FONT=&quot]I'm looking forward to a nice and exciting discussion, and hope that I could contribute something interesting to this great forum. [/FONT]

 

[Max Heat]

You struck the right chord to evoke a response from me.

I am absolutely a dedicated, die-hard, 7 fan, as far as caliber goes. A year or so ago, I stepped-up my game from the RM that I ran with for about 20 years, to the mighty (404J-based) RUM, and haven't had ANY regrets about it! So obviously, I can't help but recommend going THAT route. But then, it probably isn't for everyone. And I would never dream of trying to take any fanfare away from the STW guys, who are indeed a VERY dedicated bunch! Just for the record, the [also standardized] RM round is also a GREAT round, in my opinion. But then, I do have a propensity for sticking WITH standardized things.

Do you know what the case capacity (in grains, but I guess I can covert mg, or whatever is used in europe) of the 66SE?.

 

[MudRunner2005]

This thread should be hopefully an inspiration for the big community of 7mm enthusiasts on this site. Personally, I do have a long experience with the European 284s like the 7 x 57 and 7 x 64 (65R), great rounds. I always wanted a 7 RM badly and still do, but since I'm on this site and reading about the 7 STW on almost daily basis, I'm going to be addicted… Especially, because the round is quite unknown over here.
The same must be surely the case with the 7 x 66 Super Express vom Hofe in the USA. The 7 x 66 SE v H is a beltless magnum and was invented in 1955 by Walter Gehmann. http://www.gehmann.com The "mothercase" is the .404 Jeffrey. It's a cartridge constructed for the purpose of long-range hunting and a very potent round.The 7 x 66 SE v H is also no common product in Europe either which makes this round extremely exciting.

If requested the interested shooter will find companies like Horneber who delivers ready brass and fab – ammo can be bought at WR (Wolfgang Romey) with Woodleigh bullets. Over here in Europe, it's no issue to get a chamber reamed for this particular calibre, and surely not in the USA either. Any kind of Mauser action or its relatives like Rem 700, Win, etc. will fit perfectly.
The performance of the 7 x 66 SE v H is told to be between the 7 RM and 7 STW. I doubt that and mean that it could close up to the 7 STW with the right hand loads.
Since there are so many highly experienced guys in reloading on LRH's site, I thought they might get it done and push the 7 x 66 SE to its limits. I'm thinking f. ex. about the use of slow burning powders in combination with bullets like the Bergers and Accubonds etc.
[FONT=&quot]I'm looking forward to a nice and exciting discussion, and hope that I could contribute something interesting to this great forum. [/FONT]

You will love an STW. Midway has several websites for ordering outside the US, and I'm sure you could pick up brass and dies and a chamber reamer there.

I personally think the STW is better than the 7RUM as it is a more efficient caliber. After the STW you sort of hit a wall, called "the point of diminishing returns". Meaning that once you go bigger than the STW will start having detrimental effects like horrible barrel life, severe throat erosion, etc...For very little gains in velocity and energy.

With the RUM you jump up another 15-20 grains of powder just to gain 80-100 fps, but you lose nearly 400 shots of barrel life compared to the STW. I have heard of many guys getting 1200-1500 rounds of an STW barrel with moderate loads and big heavy slower-movin bullets. The fast light bullets with heavy powder charges tend to burn up the throats and barrels alot quicker. I have heard of guys burning out 7RUM barrels in 400-800 shots.

The ONLY advantage I can see to the RUM is it is a beltless case so the brass lasts longer.

To me the disadvantages of the RUM make it a caliber that I have no interest in owning, even though I have am one of the biggest 7mm fans out there.

 

[Max Heat]

I don't think heez looking to switch - I made the mistake of thinking that at first, then I edited my reply after I re-read his post.

I believe he just wants to get some 7 "dialog" going. At least there is SOME action happening now.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I don't think heez looking to switch - I made the mistake of thinking that at first, then I edited my reply after I re-read his post.

I believe he just wants to get some 7 "dialog" going. At least there is SOME action happening now.

Agreed. But his post did sound persuasive as if he was swaying towards a new 7.

As long as there's folks conversatin' about the 7, I'll be there, and it'll be better than silence.

Soon the howitzer crew will be in here telling us the 7's are worthless and you need a cannon to kill anything bigger than a squirrel. You know, it always has to turn into a "bigger is better" conversation on this forum.

 

[Varberger757]

Thanks for your answer and shown interest. The purpose is clearly long range hunting, the round was created for hunting in the Alpes for distances up to 400m and beyond that. Mainly red deer and Gams.
First of all, the case volume is completely powder filled 6,038 cm3. A 28' bbl is strongly recommended for the best perfomance. In literature the authors recommend Hodgdon 4831 for bullet weights between 150 - 175 gr. The same with Norma MRP, but they didn't know about H 1000 and RL 17 than! For reloading take a look into Rottweil's (RWS) reloading manual and also go and visit this site! Down to the bottom of the pdf
www.jww.de/.../028_031_wiederladen_0107.pdf‎ you'll find ready reloading datatables in grains. One of the best companies for reloading equipment in Europe, Triebel, has also got an extra site for the 7 x 66 SE v H. Triebel Online Shop. Enjoy yourself, and I hope I could give you some good advice. gun)

 

[Varberger757]

I don't think heez looking to switch - I made the mistake of thinking that at first, then I edited my reply after I re-read his post.

I believe he just wants to get some 7 "dialog" going. At least there is SOME action happening now.

No, not only a good dialogue which could be alone a fine purpose! Look at my answer, so you''ll see that Im serious.

Jens

 

[Varberger757]

Agreed. But his post did sound persuasive as if he was swaying towards a new 7.

As long as there's folks conversatin' about the 7, I'll be there, and it'll be better than silence.

Soon the howitzer crew will be in here telling us the 7's are worthless and you need a cannon to kill anything bigger than a squirrel. You know, it always has to turn into a "bigger is better" conversation on this forum.

The 7's are great and everything but worthless! lightbulb Great rounds, precise, hard hitting and kind to the shooter.
The Saga of Seven: Another
way of looking at it is that, based on similar recoil levels, you can be shooting either a .308 Win. or a .280 Rem, a .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag, a .300 Win. Mag or a 7mm STW. In all three cases the 7mm produces clearly superior downrange performance in terms of delivered energy and trajectory at any given recoil level. You could say you get more buck for the bang. gun)

Read more: The Saga of Seven

 

[MudRunner2005]

The 7's are great and everything but worthless! lightbulb Great rounds, precise, hard hitting and kind to the shooter.
The Saga of Seven: Another
way of looking at it is that, based on similar recoil levels, you can be shooting either a .308 Win. or a .280 Rem, a .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag, a .300 Win. Mag or a 7mm STW. In all three cases the 7mm produces clearly superior downrange performance in terms of delivered energy and trajectory at any given recoil level. You could say you get more buck for the bang. gun)

Read more: The Saga of Seven

Whoa whoa whoa! Don't let the howitzer crew hear you say that....They might all get flustered and come flocking to this thread to disprove you, and call you a liar.

I'm as big a 7mm fan as you are...But I know comments like that in the past have left me in the middle of ****-storm outgunned because I was getting ganged up on and nobody else was a 7 fan.

 

[Engineering101]

The 7 X 66 could be interesting. Case length is 2.598" compared to the 7mm RM at 2.5" but with no belt on the case. The 404 Jeffrey requires a bolt face of 0.543". If they didn't rebate the case like the RUMs which are 0.534", you might need a little gunsmith work to fit a "standard" magnum bolt head.

Case capacity in grains of H2O is:
112 grains for the 7mm RUM
97 grains for the 7mm STW
93 grains for the 7mm X 66
82 grains for the 7mm RM.

 

[Varberger757]

Whoa whoa whoa! Don't let the howitzer crew hear you say that....They might all get flustered and come flocking to this thread to disprove you, and call you a liar.

I'm as big a 7mm fan as you are...But I know comments like that in the past have left me in the middle of ****-storm outgunned because I was getting ganged up on and nobody else was a 7 fan.

«Howitzer crew», what a bl…dy cool name! I'm hunting and shooting actively since 37 years, so I don't have to proof anything. We also have another hunting culture then in the USA due to distances. As you self I own some "howitzers" too, like 300 WM, 9,3 x62, and I do like them. However, the shootability of the 7's is far better. If I'm on the range and see people flinching and hardly hitting the paper at 100 m, even if they use soft rounds like 308W, 6,5 x55 I doubt very much that they should be equipped with "howitzers" at all. These guys would lose all their confidence and consequently the game would be tortured. While hunting bigger deer or wild boar at longer distances they should use decent 7's (maybe braked) and those would serve them perfectly. Since I don't possess any American 7's I surely will buy both a 7 RM and later on a 7 STW. Must have them! gun)



Jens

 

[Varberger757]

The 7 X 66 could be interesting. Case length is 2.598" compared to the 7mm RM at 2.5" but with no belt on the case. The 404 Jeffrey requires a bolt face of 0.543". If they didn't rebate the case like the RUMs which are 0.534", you might need a little gunsmith work to fit a "standard" magnum bolt head.

Case capacity in grains of H2O is:
112 grains for the 7mm RUM
97 grains for the 7mm STW
93 grains for the 7mm X 66
82 grains for the 7mm RM.

I know that you can just use standard Mauser actions, Rem 700 or similar for it (literature) without any extra gunsmith work. The Rums, Wbys are in another class again.

 

[Max Heat]

LIke was said by e101, the RUM is NOT in another class [other than length], as it would NOT need extra smith-work, due to it's rebated beltless design. And wetherby uses same boltface also, if I'm not mistaken.

Anyways, I really DO like your must-have attitude, when it comes to 7's though.

 

[MudRunner2005]

«Howitzer crew», what a bl…dy cool name! I'm hunting and shooting actively since 37 years, so I don't have to proof anything. We also have another hunting culture then in the USA due to distances. As you self I own some "howitzers" too, like 300 WM, 9,3 x62, and I do like them. However, the shootability of the 7's is far better. If I'm on the range and see people flinching and hardly hitting the paper at 100 m, even if they use soft rounds like 308W, 6,5 x55 I doubt very much that they should be equipped with "howitzers" at all. These guys would lose all their confidence and consequently the game would be tortured. While hunting bigger deer or wild boar at longer distances they should use decent 7's (maybe braked) and those would serve them perfectly. Since I don't possess any American 7's I surely will buy both a 7 RM and later on a 7 STW. Must have them! gun)



Jens

I just started calling them that, because on this site, most seem to follow the "bigger is better" mentality when it comes to their guns, and it seems some wouldn't be happy unless they were shooting Howitzers at game.

I own some big bore calibers, and plenty of overbore calibers, myself. I am just not a fan of the larger diameter calibers because I don't really have any need for them. My 7mm STW will do all I need it to. Only reason...And I mean ONLY reason I bought my .338 WinMag was because of how cheap he wanted for it, and I wanted the action & stock it had on it to build another rifle. I don't flinch from recoil at all. All of my rifles are unbraked (except the Browning A-Bolt II 7RM). If I had a brake on some of the others, I probably wouldn't know what to think. LOL

I agree you should get a 7RM & a 7 STW. If you have any spare short-actions laying around a 7mm-08 is a fun one, too.