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First range report, need advice

wjarrell

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
225
Location
Hanford, CA
Gun and load info:

Remington 700 ADL 7mm Rem Mag (bone stock except I adjusted the trigger pull)
Talley lightweight rings
Vortex Viper HS LR 4x16-44

168 Berger VLD
Norma brass
Retumbo
CCI-250
COAL 3.350 about .070" off the lands

edit (All shots where fired from a cement bench with a lead sled at 100 yards)

71.5 grains
71 grains (the forth shot is the one high and right.

This gun is for deer and elk hunting out to 700 yards. I loaded in .5 grain increments and went from 69 to 71.5 and at 71.5 no pressure signs. Now here is where I don't know what to do next. Do I keep the same jump and increase powder until I hit pressure, stay with 71 or 71.5 grains and play with depth seating, or open up my barrel channel and sand off the pressure points on the tip of the forend.
 
IMO you're on the low end of the Hodgdon Retumbo curve for that rifle.
I don't see anything promising in the groups you've posted on target thus far.
Check the Hodgdon load data and work within the published load limits for that bullet with a BTOL that's about .020 off the lands. Once you've got something that looks pretty good, you can use the Berger load test to find the seating depth that works best.

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD Bullets in Your Rifle | Berger Bullets Blog

Here's a sample of the results for my most recent load workup.I normally work up a load as described. I find the powder charge that works best, set the seating depth, then go back and refine the powder charge for optinum performance. Not everyone does it that way but it works best for me.

These loads vary by .2 grains ...........
 

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IMO you're on the low end of the Hodgdon Retumbo curve for that rifle.

The Berger manual's max is 71.2, do you think that is on the conservative side? I would like to keep increasing powder charge until I show pressure signs but I don't know if I should.
 
I never had any luck with Retumbo in my 7mm RemMags. Those look like all of my groups when I tested it. Give IMR 7828 SSC or 7977 a try.

If you use a Hornady comparator and an OAL gauge, seat your VLD bullets around 0.015" off the lands. That works well in all my rifles. Once again, when doing this, start low and work up to ensure you don't get any pressure spikes, now that the bullet has less jump, since it got moved closer to the lands.
 
So there are lots of different ways to find a load for a gun. I went the powder route several time and it seem to be the long way around and was flurstating. For me I start with a 2/3 of the line, powder charger of what are published book values. Hodgens web site is a good place for there powders. I work the seating depth first using the same powder charge. I did this 2 weeks ago using the LRAB bullets in my 6.5. I found my depth to the lands at a very light touch. I back it off .002 and seated my first group of 4 or 5 rounds. I try and shoot 4 rounds and if possible 5. But that can get a little costly. I move back (decrease seating depth) between .010 to .020 but be consistant through out you testing. I then make enough rounds decreasing the length till I get to sammi length. You may have to make up about 20 to 30+ rounds depending on the gun. All are different. Clean your gun very well. You will also need 2 extra round to foul the barrel at least this is what I do. At the range I shoot the 2 rounds and then run a bore snake down the barrel twice. Bore snakes do not remove everything but the barrel is now seasoned somewhat. I have found factory rifles seem to shoot better seasoned a little. You will also need to have the rifle in the same condition before hunting. Next I then proceed to shoot multiple targets keeping track of each group with there seating depth. I take about 3 minutes between each shot. After each group of 4 I run the bore snake twice down the barrel. You should see the spread of the bullet grouping go from large down to where it tightens up and then back to spreading back out. Look for the tightest group with the least amount of vertical spread. It sometimes can be 2 groups. Once I have this data I come back and load another set of groups of 4 at plus (.010, .005), same length, minus (.005 and .010) using the same powder charge as before. Clean the gun completely, load 2 for seasoning the gun, and repeat testing keeping track and shooting about 3 minutes apart, and clean the gun with a snake between groups or what ever just don't clean down to bare metal and I try not to use any wet solvents. A dry nylon brush is good to. (just be consistant) At this point if every thing has went perfect and everyone knows nothing is perfect you should have target that is stacking the bullets somewhere around a 1/2moa or better but this also depends on the shooters ability, and if the gun will produce a 1/2 inch group or better. After all this is done I have my seating depth and then will start upping the powder charge until the group starts falling apart or at max book charge. Group may change and hit higher but hopefully they will still stack up. I have had to tweak my load about .005 to .010 to get it back grouping at some of the higher powder charge nodes and these are usually at a maximum charge. This can seem like a long process but once you find your seating depth and a good powder charge its fun to go and start really seeing the potential of the gun and yourself at those longer distances. Also getting a gun to shoot good is like a controlled lab experiement, expecially when its a factory rifle. Now some factory rifles will shoot very well but most with factory loaded ammo come in around that .8 to 1.5 inch group. I guess the other way to think about this is when a gun smith builds a custom rifle trued action or custom, custom barrel, stock etc.. all the control is in the machining tolerences. It like a controlled lab experiment with the making of the gun and usually has very good results even with factory loaded ammo. Since we get a factory stick we have to control the ammo we feed it to get it to produce results. And what you really want is something that is consistant or a consistant process with acceptable groups. Even a 1 MOA gun can get some long range jobs done if it consistantlly shooting 1MOA. So in theory a 1MOA gun should be able to produce a 10 inch group at 1000 yrds if it hold the 1MOA through out the entire range and thats were a lot of testing come in. But its fun and that is why we do it. Ok very long winded and hope this helps in some way.
 
I have been fooling with rifles and shooting for 45 years and these are a few things I have learned.

First off don't expect to get the performance of a Corvette when you purchase a pick up truck. You have a plain Jain production HUNTING rifle that is intended to be minute of a deer kill zone out to around 300 yards accurate. True it can be improved but it takes a lot of work and unless you are extremely lucky it will never shoot like a blue printed custom rifle.

Second, get rid of the lead sled for your shooting. I will not debate it but in my experience you can not get the same results with it as shooting off your shoulder while using a front and rear bag rest. The lead sled usually results in fliers.

Third, one or two five shot groups at 100 yards doesn't tell you a whole lot. I have had rifles that will shoot bug holes at 100 with a load and then move to 200 and shoot all over the place. Move to 200 yards and shoot a 10 shot group with at least 10 minutes between shots and you can learn what you really have with your best 100 yard load.

Forth, I would suggest that you free float the barrel. I personally have never had any rifle that did not shoot it's best with a properly bedded action and a free floated barrel.
 
Well, Jarrell, I've read this thread top to bottom and have a few opinions to share with you. Keep in mind that these are opinions based on my experience and do not represent a judgement of any of the other comments posted.

Use the powder manufacturer's data if you can find it.
IMO using a "standard" published reloading manual for load development is a second choice, That's because I sometimes find that details are lost in editing of the data. You can get Hodgdon data straight off their web site.
Choice of powder is rifle dependent. What works in one shooter's rifle (even the same caliber) may not work in anothers. I like H4350 H4831 for the 7mm range of rifles, I hate Reloader 17. But some of my fellow shooters swear by RL17.
As RT suggested, taking your load out to a longer range (over 100 yards) will help a lot. But I don't usually do that until I have something that resembles a satisfactory group at 100. Just my way of doin' stuff. Once I've nailed it down pretty well at 100 I extend it out to 200, then 300 and never look back.
There are a lot of opinions on the value of a factory stock. Keep in mind that the stock, supporting a free floated barrel, does nothing but hold the action in place. One of those composition factory stocks will not put you into the top ten of the national championships but if the action is properly bedded and torqued down so it doesn't move it should still keep you with the 1MOA range on target and that's pretty much OK for a hunting rifle.
 
All the susgestions are great information and knowledge to build upon. As every one has stated its a process and a controlled process that produces results. I have a 1200 dollar Remington Sendero in 300RUM. One of there top of the line guns for remington. But its still a factory produced gun. I think the stock is a good stock but its been beaded as well. Before beading, it was already free floated but I still had it beaded. Also the factory trigger was worked over as well. I have found a load combo that allow it to shoot at .5 MOA at 100 and it hold about .75 to 700 so far. But at the end of the day its still a factory gun and the load I'm running I cannot put into the mag so I have to single shoot it. If I load to factory length it shoots about .8 to .9 MOA and so fare only with the 178 AMAX. With every thing else it was closer to the 1MOA. I want to shoot heavier bullets than that so I reload to achieve those results and it to was a process to get the accuracy out of this gun as well. My next gun will be a full custom or I will have my Sendero trued and rebarreled.
 
My opinion get a trigger, get rid of the lead sled,( unless u plan on using it while hunting) get some h 1000 or rl25, or 7828, and shorten ur distance to the lands, try .010 or .020 off and lets us know how it works!
 
Wjarrell- what are you going to shoot? elk? you are in a cold place where you need an extreme type powder?
 
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