Extreme powder

[bstomper]

I just recently got into reloading and worked up a load for my 7mm R.E.M. Mag using the 162 eld and H1000 that I am very happy with but there is one issue I'm not very happy with..... the availability of H1000 in my area. I wish I would have checked that out before I wasted my time doing all the work figuring out that load. I must have lucked out when I bought my first powder because I can't find any in any of the stores in my area. I am going to work up another load with s different powder that is more readily available. I picked the hogdon powder because of the "extreme " rating on it for better temperatures stability. I have some IMR 4831 that I bought in case the H1000 didn't work out and it is much more available around here. Is the hogdon extreme powder that much better in the "extreme" temperatures. What are some other powders that would be good for my setup.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

You might give up some velocity to begin with but H-4350 is one of the best if not the best multi-temperature powders ever, I use it almost exclusively in all my rifles from 6mm to .338 mag from 85 degrees to minus 25 degrees...no poi impact with any cartridge..

 

[Dosh]

b, the IMR Enduron 7977 is equal to H1000 and is temp stable as well. H4350 is very hard to find here, H1000 is fairly easy and 7977 is everywhere but a couple $ more. We've had great accuracy with H1000 in 7mm Rem. Good luck

 

[FEENIX]

I just recently got into reloading and worked up a load for my 7mm R.E.M. Mag using the 162 eld and H1000 that I am very happy with but there is one issue I'm not very happy with..... the availability of H1000 in my area. I wish I would have checked that out before I wasted my time doing all the work figuring out that load. I must have lucked out when I bought my first powder because I can't find any in any of the stores in my area. I am going to work up another load with s different powder that is more readily available. I picked the hogdon powder because of the "extreme " rating on it for better temperatures stability. I have some IMR 4831 that I bought in case the H1000 didn't work out and it is much more available around here. Is the hogdon extreme powder that much better in the "extreme" temperatures. What are some other powders that would be good for my setup.

What powders are readily available where you are at? We can make recommendations but if you can't get them, it's of no use.

 

[bstomper]

Thanks guys. The IMR powders seem to be much more available around here, 4831, 7977, 4350 as well as the hogdon h4350, h4831. Been reading some on the IMR 7977 and like what I'm finding out. Anyone have any experience with it. It seems to have good speeds also. Although I prefer accuracy over speed, I would like to keep the speed as fast as I can as long as the accuracy doesn't suffer.

 

[FEENIX]

Thanks guys. The IMR powders seem to be much more available around here, 4831, 7977, 4350 as well as the hogdon h4350, h4831. Been reading some on the IMR 7977 and like what I'm finding out. Anyone have any experience with it. It seems to have good speeds also. Although I prefer accuracy over speed, I would like to keep the speed as fast as I can as long as the accuracy doesn't suffer.

The H4831/SC has been my go to powder for most of my loads and has performed extremely well on Montana's extreme adverse weather conditions. Not with 162 ELD but I loaded for a friend and his 7MM Rem Mag (WBTY Accumark) likes the H4831SC and IMR 7828SSC with 162 BTHP and 162 SST, as always YMMV.

 

[Darkker]

Don't live or die by Hodgy's marketing BS. Being "Temp insensitive" is not a universal condition, it is a specific design condition, and it has side effects.
http://www.ramshot.com/faq/
#5 will explain it.

Hodgdon flat-out lies about a few things, and takes some liberal liberties about other things.
They tell you they created magical powder that... Except they don't create a single ounce of smokeless powder. They buy surplus or toll milling time from one of the defense Contractors. They ask for a set of attributes and get a choice, pay for R&D on a new thing, or take something they make possibly with a few tweeks. Here's a hint, they ALWAYS take the least expensive route. All SAAMI members learned long ago that Copper Crushers are inaccurate above @45,000psi. What does that mean? The same reference lot of powder sent to the majors showed the same load producing differences on the order of 20,000 psi!! ..... Notice how much of their load data is in CUP??

Hodgdon has done some good things for the Reloading community without a doubt, but there is some buggery also.
They are a reseller only, not a powder tech company.

 

[FEENIX]

I've extracted this older post from http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=209949 and it never gets old ; I've always enjoyed GG's posts ...

Absolutely! There have been many tests on this subject. Many have been published and some data is contradictive but I'll give you my own personal results.

As far as brands go, here's my list from most temperamental to least:

1. Ramshot (because they are all rifle ball powders)
2. Winchester (because they are all rifle ball powders)
3. Accurate (because they are mostly rifle ball powders)
4. Alliant
5. IMR
6. VV
7. Hodgdon


As for individual powders, my list is this: (I'm not going to name each powder here, just a few of the best and worst and a few of the ones in the middle)

most temperamental to least:

H380
H414
WW748
AA2460
WW760
H335
RL25
RL22
IMR4198
AA4350
VV550
H4895
IMR4350
IMR4831
IMR7828
N165
H1000
H322
H4831ssc
N170
N133
Benchmark
Varget


Even though some of the powders listed towards the bottom of the list are great for weather insensitivity, they still exhibit a need to tweek with the charge slightly in temperature changes to maintain a certain pressure. Despite some claims by some manufacturers that their powders will shoot the same from 20 below to 120 above, no powder is perfect. Temperature changes all combustables combustion. Period. It is unavoidable no matter what "coating" you use on the powder. And all powders show markedly different characteristics once the temp gets to and above 80 degrees. Loads worked up above 80 will still work accurately as long as the temp stays above 80 degrees. But loads worked up below 80 degrees F do better shot up to around 75 degrees. Or in other words, loads worked up in cool weather hold their node for a longer temp range than loads worked up at or above 80 degrees F.

I'm not sure why 80 degrees is the unlucky number, but I have seen this be the fulcrum of load development time and time again with every brand and make of powder--especially ball powders.

 

[WildRose]

Thanks guys. The IMR powders seem to be much more available around here, 4831, 7977, 4350 as well as the hogdon h4350, h4831. Been reading some on the IMR 7977 and like what I'm finding out. Anyone have any experience with it. It seems to have good speeds also. Although I prefer accuracy over speed, I would like to keep the speed as fast as I can as long as the accuracy doesn't suffer.

Why don't you just go to the retailer you bought it from or the one carrying H4350 and ask them to order some H1000 for you? If the retailers have access to Hodgdon Powders at all they should be able to get any of them. They may just be stocking what is most in demand, or H1000 may be in such high demand that they run out of it in a hurry.

If you're only loading for one rifle 5lbs will last you an awful long time.

 

[MudRunner2005]

b, the IMR Enduron 7977 is equal to H1000 and is temp stable as well. H4350 is very hard to find here, H1000 is fairly easy and 7977 is everywhere but a couple $ more. We've had great accuracy with H1000 in 7mm Rem. Good luck

+1 for IMR 7977. It is not always equal to H1000 in every cartridge with every bullet weight, according to checking on Hodgdon's online reloading center. But it is VERY close.

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

 

[WildRose]

Don't live or die by Hodgy's marketing BS. Being "Temp insensitive" is not a universal condition, it is a specific design condition, and it has side effects.
http://www.ramshot.com/faq/
#5 will explain it.

Hodgdon flat-out lies about a few things, and takes some liberal liberties about other things.
They tell you they created magical powder that... Except they don't create a single ounce of smokeless powder. They buy surplus or toll milling time from one of the defense Contractors. They ask for a set of attributes and get a choice, pay for R&D on a new thing, or take something they make possibly with a few tweeks. Here's a hint, they ALWAYS take the least expensive route. All SAAMI members learned long ago that Copper Crushers are inaccurate above @45,000psi. What does that mean? The same reference lot of powder sent to the majors showed the same load producing differences on the order of 20,000 psi!! ..... Notice how much of their load data is in CUP??

Hodgdon has done some good things for the Reloading community without a doubt, but there is some buggery also.
They are a reseller only, not a powder tech company.

This isn't true. They began buying up surplus powders but that was a long time ago. They develop their own powders and have them produced under license just like nearly everyone else in the business in the US.

As for cup vs psi, it has nothing to do with "cheap". The CUP method has been around much longer and that's what they started with.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...hats-the-difference-in-pressure-measurements/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/know-your-terminology-cup-vs-psi/

Both give accurate measures of safe pressures.

 

[nvreloader]

For those that have QL,
FWIW, per Ed at Neco,
there is a NEW update disc out, DATED Dec, 2016,
(the Jan 2016 disc does NOT have these powders listed,)
that has the NEW IMR Enduron powders in it,
along with New Berger bullets etc.

Awaiting for this new update disc to arrive,
to see what is there.

Tia,
Don

 

[MudRunner2005]

For those that have QL,
FWIW, per Ed at Neco,
there is a NEW update disc out, DATED Dec, 2016,
(the Jan 2016 disc does NOT have these powders listed,)
that has the NEW IMR Enduron powders in it,
along with New Berger bullets etc.

Awaiting for this new update disc to arrive,
to see what is there.

Tia,
Don

If you buy QL today, would it come with the newest version with the IMR powders and Berger bullets?

I have been putting it off for years, and finally want to go ahead and take the plunge.

Also, does the new version have Alliant 300-MP Magnum Pistol powder? I need load data for it for .300 BLK, and can't find any load data for it anywhere. Nobody seems to use that powder, and I have an unopened 8lb. jug of it...

 

[jimbires]

If you buy QL today, would it come with the newest version with the IMR powders and Berger bullets?

I have been putting it off for years, and finally want to go ahead and take the plunge.

Also, does the new version have Alliant 300-MP Magnum Pistol powder? I need load data for it for .300 BLK, and can't find any load data for it anywhere. Nobody seems to use that powder, and I have an unopened 8lb. jug of it...

I have the newest version . it does NOT have Alliant power pro 300 -MP

yes you should get the newest version .