Hodgen Extreme Powders ?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by 1100 Remington Man, May 7, 2014.

  1. 1100 Remington Man

    1100 Remington Man Well-Known Member

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    I have been happy with IMR 4350 in my .264 Win Mag & Nosler 120 gr BT as my Deer & Antelope bullet of choice around 3225 FPS. I have a Model 70 with a 24 inch barrel so would I gain any thing buy going to Hodgen Extreme Powder or is this just good marketing ? I check my rifle when the temps are in the 40's & most of the time hunting it's between 15-35 F. I have wondered has any body tested Alliant powders & IMR for temp sensitive and changes in velocity ? Thanks
     
  2. morcey2

    morcey2 Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak directly to IMR4350, but IMR4064 is my go-to powder in most of the chamberings I load for and it's somewhat temperature sensitive. I also use a lot of H4350 and it's been extremely stable (pun intended).

    Here's a page that Hodgdon did comparing some of the Extreme powders with IMR, AA, some Reloder stuff, a little Winchester, etc of the same burn ranges:

    http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page2.php

    Raw-er data:

    http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page3.php

    Since Hodgdon distributes both IMR and Winchester powders, I don't think they'd have any reason to fudge the numbers on those powders to make them look worse compared to the Hodgdon offerings.

    One of the interesting things I found in their raw numbers is that they found AA4350 to be inversely-temperature sensitive. Higher pressure and velocities at 0* than at 70* and the lowest was at 125*. I've picked up some AA-4350 to replace the non-existent H4350 in some newer loads. I'll hopefully have some better numbers on my own in the next month or so.

    If there is no significant difference between the temperature at which you work up loads and the temp at which you hunt, I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about.

    Matt
     
  3. Dano1

    Dano1 Well-Known Member

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    I'd consider using the Hodgdon powders, not necessarily for the temp issues, but I because I think you'd be better served with using a slower burning powder. The 4350 powders are too fast for a cartridge with such an over bore cartridge leaving a bit of unused case capacity left over. You normally want a case fill of 97% or higher with out compressing the charge. If you have to compress, the powder is too slow anyway.

    4350, in a 6.5 or .264 caliber is best suited for a -06 sized case, a medium magnum case should have H4831, H1000, or Retumbo. I would choose Retumbo for it's velocity and lower pressure over H4350 even though it requires 10 more grains of powder.

    If you want to stick to a IMR powder 7828SC would be a good choice too, but I can't seem to find any data for it.

    I use Retumbo in my 7 STW and it is simply amazing in the heavy bullet weights.

    Hope this helps,

    Dano
     
  4. 1100 Remington Man

    1100 Remington Man Well-Known Member

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    The reason I chose IMR 4350 was Nosler listed is as the most accurate with the Nosler 120 gr BT. I also did not know if a slower powder would work well in a 24 inch barrel of my .264 Win Mag. I have not tried H 4350, should I ? I did try H4831 last year with 140 gr Sierra 140 BTSP & it was not as accurate as Nosler 120 gr BT with IMR 4350. I have thought about Retumbo & trying 130 gr weight & 140 gr weight bullets but did not know if it would perform in my 24 inch barrel. I really don't want to rebarrel it till it's shot out. I only have this rifle set up to shoot to 750 yds with Noslers 120 gr BT. So any .264 Win Mag shooter with 24 inch barrels what are you using ? Why & for what size game ?
     
  5. Gunpoor

    Gunpoor Well-Known Member

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    I consider IMR4350 a very temp stable propellant and if something "ain't" broke I don't go looking for a fix. If you would like to load a heavier bullet then you could look at something slower burning. I liked H1000 in the 264Win with 140 and 160 grain bullets. I really like IMR4350 and have seldom been disappointed with it in most fitting applications, from 243 up to and including the 338WinMag.
     
  6. Kennibear

    Kennibear Well-Known Member

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    When Hodgdon bought out DuPont they moved production to ADI in Australia and converted all IMR tubular to Extreme technology. Unless your can of IMR is old it is an extreme powder.

    IMR 4350 seems pretty fast for the 264. Have you tried something slower?

    KB
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I use IMR 7828 SSC in every single one of my bolt-action rifles, except my .308 Win and my 7mm-08 Rem, and they get a steady diet of Varget. All my straight-wall and lever-action rifles get LeverEvolution or Alliant Reloder 7.
     
  8. morcey2

    morcey2 Well-Known Member

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    Only the Hodgdon extruded powders, XBR8208, H/IMR4227 are the Extreme powders. The rest of the IMR line. 8208 and IMR4198 are both made in Australia by ADI, as is H4227/IMR4227 which are exactly the same thing: AR2205 as designated by ADI.

    Unless something else has changed very recently (within the last year), the rest of the IMR extruded powders, the SR-series powders, and PB are all made by General Dynamics in Canada.

    Matt
     
  9. Kennibear

    Kennibear Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that Hodgdon pulled the DuPont rifle powders from GD/ Canada and moved the production to ADI. Western Powders then contracted with GD/ Canada for their extruded powder needs. But Hodgdon did announce in one of their online sites that all IMR was Extreme. That online Loading Manual no longer exists so maybe I am wrong. If so, my apologies.

    But why would Hodgdon support competing manufacturers? If I ran ADI I would strive for all of Hodgdon's business.

    KB
     
  10. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Just a couple days ago I asked Hodgdon for understanding of the numbering scheme and differences between H4895/IMR4895 & H4350/IMR4350.
    Their reply:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Those numbers refer to performance specs and are generally military based.
    They are quite different.
    They are made on different continents, have different chemistry, different granule size, different burn speeds and use different data.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That IMR powders are now 'extreme',, could be, given that this is likely no more than made up merchandising with no actual basis provided by Hodgdon. I pay no mind to the extreme hogwash and focus only on my results with these powders.

    I've also seen testing where IMR tested more temp stable than Hodgdon, and my IMR4350 is SLOWER than my H4350.

    Anyway, IMR & H are not interchangeable. If you have a great load with IMR, buy a barrel-lifes-worth of that lot so that you can hang onto it.
     
  11. rooster721

    rooster721 Well-Known Member

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    I shoot a model 70 with a 24" barrel, in 264wm.. on it's second barrel now. First one gave me +/- 1500 rounds of 1/2"-3/4" accuracy. That barrel shot 140 Berger Hunting vld's @ 3135 with the 1:9 factory twist... new barrel is an 8.5 twist with different rifling type, so no sense getting into detail with it..

    None-the-less, both are/were 24" barrels (purposely shorter for backpack-use/sheep hunting) both barrels I used Retumbo exclusively.. i agree with another previous post regarding lower pressures/capacity and benefit of velocity out of Retumbo (or even possibly H1000 in certain cases) Your barrel "should" get you 3100 without a problem with Retumbo & 140gr bullets.
     
  12. Catfur

    Catfur Well-Known Member

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    New production IMR powder is NOT Extreme (Except for 8208XBR, which really should have been named H8208), and is manufactured in Canada (eh?). The original Dupont 8208 has been brought back into production as LT-32.

    Hodgdon didn't buy out DuPont, they bought out the IMR Powder Trademark. The actual powder facilities all went to varied and sundry other businesses.

    Hodgdon supports competing manufacturers because they are a marketer, not a manufacturer. No marketer ever wants to be beholden to one mfr.
     
  13. Kennibear

    Kennibear Well-Known Member

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    Catfur

    That is good information and I stand corrected. I was searching for 4350 powder as I am into my last can purchased over 20 years ago. I believe if you find a powder you should buy a lot of it so you don't have to work up loads again. That is old wisdom that I learned in the 70's.

    The only IMR of recent purchase is 7828 (for 300WinMag/200grGMK) and it works well. Typically I develop loads for max pressure first in mid summer heat and then retest in winter to derive ballistics data. This is because I hunt in cold weather. Developing max in summer keeps the pressure demons at bay. I have hopes of the Extreme line of powders proving temp constant.

    4350 is another purchase I will do in bulk so I need input from everybody. But it should be another thread.

    KB
     
  14. Catfur

    Catfur Well-Known Member

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    You're going to have a lot of trouble finding H4350 in any particular bulk right now. I use it in my 6XC F-class rifle, and have enough to last through this year.

    IMR 4350 is a lot more available, and still the same old stuff. I've even considered trying to convert over to IMR 4350 for my loads (or one of the 4831s).