Dead soft brass!

[Frank Kalisz]

For what it's worth.. I anneal at every loading to make my military brass easier to work. I use a rotating water pan as a heat sink for my cartridge bases, and I used 700degF Tempilaq to determine my heating time with the way I apply my propane torch. So now now I use a metronome app to measure 6 seconds of torch time for each cartridge case. I'd certainly be glad to consider other suggestions but this seems to work for me.

 

[J E Custom]

I started out much like everyone else, and had to learn the hard way.

I used the pan with water up to the level that I didn't want the brass annealed. after heating them up with a torch, I tipped them over with a pencil to stop the process. The water assured that I didn't over anneal the areas not needed. This however did not prevent me from ruining the case rim/mouth by over heating them.

The problem with many methods is the amount of heat and the time heated. Watching the color change of the case mouth is not an exact science and is the downfall of many systems that don't protect the case head and most of the body.

So I decided on a method that the time could be set and very consistent to eliminate the human factor. this process can be adjusted with worn out cases, and then switched to the good cases
after the dwell time and all other parameters are determined.

There are many good systems out there but need a constant dwell time to realy work . some systems work well with the simple use of a metronome (A smart phone can be used for this if you are not a musician).

I also recommend the water bath right after annealing to stop the process.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Azrael]

I use the molten salt method. Its close to fool-proof, you'll never wreck brass, cheap and fast.

 

[NEMTHunter]

I also recommend the water bath right after annealing to stop the process.

J E CUSTOM

I do this with every piece of brass I anneal. I feel its a good practice. If you do not do it the heat will keep moving down the brass and mess with the base. I tested both ways and I only use the water way now.


I do use the torch and socket method. I have found not all the brass even in the same lot takes as much time as others. Not sure why that is.

 

[Vann Kirkland]

Just to be clear, just because we have 1 example of somebody ruining a whole pile of brass does not mean everybody who anneals with a drill, socket, and torch is an idiot and bound for failure and going to blow their head off and blah blah blah.
Before things go down that road again.
OP clearly stated he was heating them till glowing red hot, because he got bad information on how to anneal, not because he as an idiot, or because he had a death wish. It was simply the result of bad information.

So we dont need a bunch of armchair experts demanding that everybody ABSOLUTELY MUST go buy the exact same brand of annealing machine they have. While I'm sure the machines make it nice, they are based on time in the flame In the exact same way my drill holding a socket in the flame is. The difference being possibility of variability in where the flame contacts the case in the handheld method. But if we can hold a rifle steady enough to shoot well enough that we think we need to anneal our brass, I would venture to say we should be capable of holding a case in the same spot within the flame. Then it comes down to how you determine how long to hold it there. And that is something you have to determine with either method, typically tempilaq, and then experience from there.
I guess the salt bath guys can pipe in and say their method is best, which I wouldn't argue, but that comes with a different set of issues.

My sympathies to OP, the fear of doing exactly this kept me from trying, then I started getting split necks so I had some perfectly ruined brass to try on and some great guys on here to help guide me. I was trying to be cheap and impatient and didnt want to get tempilaq at first, but it is really the key for somebody just getting into annealing without an experienced mentor standing over your shoulder. And despite my statements above, I have nothing against annealing machines, I just anticipate a few morons stopping by to say we lower life forms without them don't deserve to breathe the same air as them. But most people here are awesome like the few who have already posted.

I completely agree with you. We can all learn something from knee jerk responses. Thank you for being patient, wise and pointing this out to everyone.

 

[LoneStarTexian]

Safe reloading everyone.

 

[merasmus]

Just to be clear, just because we have 1 example of somebody ruining a whole pile of brass does not mean everybody who anneals with a drill, socket, and torch is an idiot and bound for failure and going to blow their head off and blah blah blah.
Before things go down that road again.
OP clearly stated he was heating them till glowing red hot, because he got bad information on how to anneal, not because he as an idiot, or because he had a death wish. It was simply the result of bad information.

So we dont need a bunch of armchair experts demanding that everybody ABSOLUTELY MUST go buy the exact same brand of annealing machine they have. While I'm sure the machines make it nice, they are based on time in the flame In the exact same way my drill holding a socket in the flame is. The difference being possibility of variability in where the flame contacts the case in the handheld method. But if we can hold a rifle steady enough to shoot well enough that we think we need to anneal our brass, I would venture to say we should be capable of holding a case in the same spot within the flame. Then it comes down to how you determine how long to hold it there. And that is something you have to determine with either method, typically tempilaq, and then experience from there.
I guess the salt bath guys can pipe in and say their method is best, which I wouldn't argue, but that comes with a different set of issues.

My sympathies to OP, the fear of doing exactly this kept me from trying, then I started getting split necks so I had some perfectly ruined brass to try on and some great guys on here to help guide me. I was trying to be cheap and impatient and didnt want to get tempilaq at first, but it is really the key for somebody just getting into annealing without an experienced mentor standing over your shoulder. And despite my statements above, I have nothing against annealing machines, I just anticipate a few morons stopping by to say we lower life forms without them don't deserve to breathe the same air as them. But most people here are awesome like the few who have already posted.

I had never annealed brass and decided I had some that needed to be done. Looked up Information and decided to try the drill socket and torch method. It worked great. I guess I found the right information to follow.

 

[kiwikid]

BoatTail, there is some very valuable info on this site under the "Information" drop down box. You may particularly be interested in the section "About Brass Hardness" which explains how quickly you could re-harden your brass by resizing.
https://www.ampannealing.com/

When I bought an AMP machine I phoned and asked about quenching the brass in water after annealing and they told me that once the heat source is removed the heat dissipates so quickly that there is no chance of it affecting the case base.
kiwikid

 

[gator378]

Just to be clear, just because we have 1 example of somebody ruining a whole pile of brass does not mean everybody who anneals with a drill, socket, and torch is an idiot and bound for failure and going to blow their head off and blah blah blah.
Before things go down that road again.
OP clearly stated he was heating them till glowing red hot, because he got bad information on how to anneal, not because he as an idiot, or because he had a death wish. It was simply the result of bad information.

So we dont need a bunch of armchair experts demanding that everybody ABSOLUTELY MUST go buy the exact same brand of annealing machine they have. While I'm sure the machines make it nice, they are based on time in the flame In the exact same way my drill holding a socket in the flame is. The difference being possibility of variability in where the flame contacts the case in the handheld method. But if we can hold a rifle steady enough to shoot well enough that we think we need to anneal our brass, I would venture to say we should be capable of holding a case in the same spot within the flame. Then it comes down to how you determine how long to hold it there. And that is something you have to determine with either method, typically tempilaq, and then experience from there.
I guess the salt bath guys can pipe in and say their method is best, which I wouldn't argue, but that comes with a different set of issues.

My sympathies to OP, the fear of doing exactly this kept me from trying, then I started getting split necks so I had some perfectly ruined brass to try on and some great guys on here to help guide me. I was trying to be cheap and impatient and didnt want to get tempilaq at first, but it is really the key for somebody just getting into annealing without an experienced mentor standing over your shoulder. And despite my statements above, I have nothing against annealing machines, I just anticipate a few morons stopping by to say we lower life forms without them don't deserve to breathe the same air as them. But most people here are awesome like the few who have already posted.

Never annealed yet. When the brass wears out I get new.

 

[NEMTHunter]

When I bought an AMP machine I phoned and asked about quenching the brass in water after annealing and they told me that once the heat source is removed the heat dissipates so quickly that there is no chance of it affecting the case base.
kiwikid

Have you tested it? I will put it like this. Do it by hand one time and when your done you can just maybe feel the brass getting warm at the base maybe. let it sit a bit and try to pick it up by the base. You will get burnt. Thats why i quench it in water. No heat going to the base that way. Maybe there's not enough to cause a problem. But you will still get burnt. Lets put it this way. that means there is heat making its way to the base. The rest of the brass acts as a heat sink.

I am sure thats not enough heat to hurt it. But I like it to cool down fast.

 

[Dirtrax]

You can use 400* tempilaq on the base to verify temperature creep. I've found it to be a waste of time after a few uses.

 

[yorke-1]

BoatTail, there is some very valuable info on this site under the "Information" drop down box. You may particularly be interested in the section "About Brass Hardness" which explains how quickly you could re-harden your brass by resizing.
https://www.ampannealing.com/

That's a potentially dangerous misinterpretation of the information provided from that link. Resizing your brass could re-harden the neck/shoulder area, but it will not re-harden the body or case head if those areas were allowed to get too hot during improper annealing.

 

[kiwikid]

NEMTHunter, Yes I have tested it by using the socket in the drill method. Firstly I preheated the points of a pair of needle nose pliers to 250° F so that when I removed the case from the socket the pliers weren't acting as a heat sink. Then I annealed 2 cases each of .223, 22-250 and 257 Rob. The first case of each cartridge (the case on the left of each) I annealed to what I thought was correct. The second case I heated until the entire neck section was glowing cheery red.
Once heated I quickly placed them on a Fluke temp probe and these are the results I obtained on the case bases,
223 normal 201° F
223 extreme 258° F
22-250 normal 238° F
22-250 extreme 291° F
257 Rob normal 241° F
257 Rob extreme 288° F
Each temperature was the max recorded so yes they will burn your fingers but they are well below what I have read is needed to anneal brass.

 

[Dirtrax]

I guess that if one re-annealed the cases in question to a similar level that would approximate "over done" but applied a low temp indicator such as 400* tempilaq (or whatever temp makes you comfortable) to the cartridge base the impact could be tested.