Can light weight and long range go together?

[ducky]

First post here, I've visited several times over the years but finally decided to register and start learning. A few years back I built a .243 Win on a Stevens 200 with a 7 twist 26" heavy varmint barrel. I pushed the rifle to 600 yards but never had a chance to take it further. I really enjoyed shooting that rifle, but it was too heavy IMO to carry hunting as it weighed nearly 12 lbs.

My goal is no heavier than 8.5 lbs now for my next .243 Win or 6mm CM and that's all up without bipod. Right now I have a second hand B&C Mountain ADL stock and a M700 SA. I'm thinking a remmtn24 contour from Lilja chambered with minimal/no shank and 22" length in an 8 twist. So I'm kind of stuck here so how do I finish this rifle off and make my weight goals?

I'll be mainly shooting 105 grain Berger and Amax bullets possibly some 115 DTACS as I still have a few hundred of them. So one of my main questions is will I be happy with the factory magazine box or should I get the Wyatt's? I'm thinking if I go CM the magazine box won't matter as much.

The scope I'm wanting to use is the MIL/MIL Bushnell Elite LRHS 3-12X44 so that adds nearly 25 ounces without mounts. I'm not against changing up things to meet my weight goals. I have several rifles that I've built that met my weight goals but I've never used a scope that heavy nor built a longish range medium game rifle.

 

[hawk45]

Welcome!

The trade off with a light weight rig is stability. It's possible but practice is the most important thing.

Trade-offs:
Shorter barrel is less weight, but less velocity/stability
Longer barrel is more weight, but more velicity/stability
Thinner barrel is less weight but whippy.
Thicker barrel is more weight but less whippy.

What is your definition of "long range" though? If you are hunting game past 600yds, you may want to step up from a .243, even with 115's.

You could always just get a Tikka Lite T3 in 300WM or 7RM and have an effective setup for as far as your terminal ballistics can take the game you are hunting.

As far as mag length.. you'll have to look up the recommended length of the 115 DTACs (shortest I've seen is 2.860") I know they are super long, so not even sure they will fit in Wyatt's DBM. Factory Remington 700 box mag will feed up to 2.820", maybe a bit shorter for reliability.

 

[ducky]

Thanks for the reply and information, and to answer your question 600 yards is my benchmark for now. This .243 Win is strictly for medium sized game deer and pronghorn probably being the largest animals I'll attempt with it. There is a long story and why I'm attempting a foray into longer range hunting.

On Sep 29 of last year I had an accident which will probably change the way I hunt for the rest of my life. I was working on my house and fell off a ladder shattering my ankle. Pictures work best to explain the story so here they are. Here is what my leg looked like in my emergency room x-ray.

Well to keep my leg from shrinking up I needed what they call an external fixator, the first one only had four pins.

After the swelling went down I got some hardware installed internally, and had 13 pins externally.

On the 17th of December I finally had all the pins removed and got some new hardware internally again, and my ankle was locked down. So my fused ankle has no more up and down movement though it'll still rock side to side.

Though I'll walk again without a cane or crutches eventually, I probably won't be able to cover the same terrain I used to be able to to get to game. That's why I think I'll need to learn to shoot and be confident at longer ranges than my norm. I figured the .243 would be pretty easy for both me and my daughter to learn to shoot at longer ranges.

I went .243 the first time with the Savage because I already reloaded for it. I figured since I had pretty good success with it I'd stick with it again though I could be persuaded to switch cases to the 6mm Creedmoor. In the Savage I was able to load and feed from the DBM at around 2.85" with both the Berger VLD and DTAC bullets. Though both bullets liked to be seated much deeper than that, and managed to group 1.5" or less at 300 yards.

I never took the rifle past 600 yards, and all the steel plates were at known ranges. I'm hoping I can expand on what I learned the first time and start applying it to more hunting situations. I figure I'll be using the rifle on deer, pronghorn, and smaller varmints, so I should have plenty of power for what I need.

 

[JJMoody]

I'm very new to Long Range hunting and custom rifles, however, I was talking to a friend of mine who has gone through the gambit with the big, heavy 338 Lapua Imp. etc.... and has come full circle back to an 8.5lb 300 win mag and enjoys very good success with it. Says he uses way less powder and he can shoot the thing without the big brake on it, but its a joy to shoot with it on. I've been meaning to have him spec it out for me. I do recall that its on a 700 action and a Hart fluted #6 (IIRC) don't remember the rest, but he's owned and shot the best... It can be done

 

[sp6x6]

There is a good thread in the Rifles barrels and ballistics section.Right now on 'Sub 6# build " that adresses this.The small 6 is not going to have much E for hunting for what I consider long range, which varies for user.Paper wise a friend of mine has set world records with a 6mm dasher.I hunt with a light 338 NM it can be done,many have done so.They dont settle in as well and spotting your shot can be tougher.

 

[WildRose]

First off having had a great deal of orthopedic work over the last year with some more on the schedule for this year let me say that if you are willing to work through the pain and do all your rehab like they tell you to, there is good quality of life to follow an ankle overhaul. I had to have a complete reconstruction of my right ankle basically meaning every tendon and ligament in it had to be repaired, reinforced, or replaced with a couple of newly manufactured one's installed for better stability long term. A year later almost to the day I was at 9,000' in North Central NM helping Mario pack out his elk.

It can be done!

As for rifles all else being equal heavier is steadier and steadier is more accurate. It takes energy to induce accuracy errors and it just takes more energy to move a heavier object than a light one.

That being said if you don't go lighter than 8-9lbs and you are good at your marksmanship fundamentals you can get good accuracy out of a lighter rig just not as good as you'd get out of the same set up a little heavier.

Caliber wise I'd say the 6mm can get the job done but I'd at least step it up to a 6.5mm or even 7mm. I've shot a lot of deer and antelope and antelope don't go down easily unless you spine them. A little heavier bullet gives you a little more energy and better ballistic coefficients and all of that adds up when you start stretching beyond 400yds.

If it were me for the same application I'd probably look to the .260 Rem or 6.5x55.

Some suggest the 300wm and truthfully the .300wm is never the wrong answer but if you are wanting to stick to a lower recoiling round with good terminal ballistics then the 6.5's are really unbeatable.

 

[ducky]

First off having had a great deal of orthopedic work over the last year with some more on the schedule for this year let me say that if you are willing to work through the pain and do all your rehab like they tell you to, there is good quality of life to follow an ankle overhaul. I had to have a complete reconstruction of my right ankle basically meaning every tendon and ligament in it had to be repaired, reinforced, or replaced with a couple of newly manufactured one's installed for better stability long term. A year later almost to the day I was at 9,000' in North Central NM helping Mario pack out his elk.

It can be done!

As for rifles all else being equal heavier is steadier and steadier is more accurate. It takes energy to induce accuracy errors and it just takes more energy to move a heavier object than a light one.

That being said if you don't go lighter than 8-9lbs and you are good at your marksmanship fundamentals you can get good accuracy out of a lighter rig just not as good as you'd get out of the same set up a little heavier.

Caliber wise I'd say the 6mm can get the job done but I'd at least step it up to a 6.5mm or even 7mm. I've shot a lot of deer and antelope and antelope don't go down easily unless you spine them. A little heavier bullet gives you a little more energy and better ballistic coefficients and all of that adds up when you start stretching beyond 400yds.

If it were me for the same application I'd probably look to the .260 Rem or 6.5x55.

Some suggest the 300wm and truthfully the .300wm is never the wrong answer but if you are wanting to stick to a lower recoiling round with good terminal ballistics then the 6.5's are really unbeatable.

Thank you for the words of encouragement, and I'm doing the PT that I'm allowed. I'm still non weight bearing and probably will be for at least three more weeks. I'm looking at mid June to first of July until I can return to work. Most of the pain is gone, but I'm still having problems with nerve pain, as the major nerve in my leg had quite a bit of damage. My toes always feel like they are on fire, and narcotics don't help so I'm down to 2-3 5mg percoset a day from 10-12 10mg percoset a day. Gabopenten which is a diabetic nerve pain drug seems to give the best relief, but I don't think the dosage is high in enough yet and at least it isn't a narcotic.

Thanks for the cartridge recommendations, but I'm happy with the .243 for now. I may move up later to a 6.5 CM or .260 later but right now the .243 is just keeping it simple for me. I have multiple dies, bullets, brass, and tons of data already, and I'd be starting all over choosing a different cartridge since I don't have any 6.5 cartridges after I got rid of my old M96 rifle.

 

[FEENIX]

Thank you for the words of encouragement, and I'm doing the PT that I'm allowed. I'm still non weight bearing and probably will be for at least three more weeks. I'm looking at mid June to first of July until I can return to work. Most of the pain is gone, but I'm still having problems with nerve pain, as the major nerve in my leg had quite a bit of damage. My toes always feel like they are on fire, and narcotics don't help so I'm down to 2-3 5mg percoset a day from 10-12 10mg percoset a day. Gabopenten which is a diabetic nerve pain drug seems to give the best relief, but I don't think the dosage is high in enough yet and at least it isn't a narcotic.

Thanks for the cartridge recommendations, but I'm happy with the .243 for now. I may move up later to a 6.5 CM or .260 later but right now the .243 is just keeping it simple for me. I have multiple dies, bullets, brass, and tons of data already, and I'd be starting all over choosing a different cartridge since I don't have any 6.5 cartridges after I got rid of my old M96 rifle.

WOW! I can only imagine what you're going through. Hang in there and stick with your PT; it's a lot of work and takes time but it'll be worth it at the end.

.243 will definitely do it with the right set-up and ammo combination and of course the nut behind the trigger.

Good luck on both. Cheers!

Ed

 

[Marine24]

I went this route myself, but elected to go with the 260 Rem. Mine was a SA Savage with a 20" McGowan medium sporter fluted barrel with a B&C Medalist stock and a Swaro Z5 3.5-18 scope. Loaded and with optics it came in heavier than I wanted at 8.7 lbs but still a major improvement over my previous 260 Rem LR rifle.

At the range, I was able to comfortably take it out to 800 yards with no issue, but never got the chance to hunt with it before I sold it. I have a 257 Wby and a 7mm-08 already, so there was a great deal of redundancy.

Only challenge I had with the lighter barrel was the groups opening up as the barrel got hotter. The fluting helped but just had to adopt a more relaxed pace when shooting.

 

[Plinker147]

I built a light weight gun in a 325 short mag. It has 20 in Douglas air gauge barrel on it. Came in around 7lbs. Its about 1-1/2 MOA 3 shot group accuracy. But it is first shot cold bore accurate. Furthest game I have taken is 500yds with 200gr accubond. this is strictly a back country elk gun and hits its limits around 600yds.

It is possible but it depends on what one goals are in terms on accuracy.
With .243 you should be able to build a light weight MOA accurate gun

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Shawn carlock has a project rifle he's working on. It's based on his terminator action, proof research barrel chambered in 300rum +p. If I remember correctly it's 9.9lbs with a NSX.

 

[royinidaho]

ducky,

As I read the initial post I began to figure you were kind of a wimpy sort of fella as I, up to the age of 70 packed a 11 pound carry rifle and hauled a 12 and 16 pound rig to the hide spot (one at a time).

From 70 to nearly 73 a lot of things happened. The only good thing is that I'm still around.

When I scrolled down an viewed the pics I began to be more reasonable with my assessment of your character.

Some things are a given. Such as more weight = more stability.

Given that statement, the goal around this living room is that first cold bore shot is the one that counts.

Which means, at least to me, that heaviness isn't all "that" important.

My pack animal packs my 16 pound rig and all the stuff that goes with. The nearly 800 pound donkey can carry me anywhere I want to get close to then I hoof it and the donk follows.

For carry I'm working towards a long range rig of the 270 - 300 Win persuasion that will come out under 8 pounds with a pencil thin 28" barrel.

I fully expect the first cold bore shot to be precisely where I desire, if I do my part.

The lighter the rig the shorter the maximum effective range. In your case I feel that if you drive it properly you'll get done what you want.

I'd say you're on the right track.

 

[ducky]

Well it's a hunting rig not a competition PR rig or I'd just buy an RPR and be done. I think as well as many that with this rig the first shot is the most important one, and possibly a quick follow up. Anyway, as royinidaho so eloquently put it I'm still around. Things could have been so much worse as I was over 15' off the ground when I slipped from the ladder. I'm just blessed I didn't land on my back, head, or worse my daughter who was holding the ladder.

I'm just in the planning phases as until I'm back to work there is no way I can afford a new tube or a new Bushnell LRHS scope. What little disability insurance I get barely covers the bills. But again I'm blessed to have the insurance and a job waiting for me to return. I have the stock and the action with a factory barrel so at least I'm that far along in the game. I also have a Weaver Tactical 3-10X40 MIL/MIL scope so I may have to spin some 95 grain NBT or VLD's and see what I can do until my build can progress.

I'm just here to have fun and see if I can increase my potential.

 

[JJMoody]

Sure don't hurt to have a mental project to build on while healing up.