Bullets: No time for expansion...

[Deleted member 107796]

This penciling thing is a laugh, IMO. The kinetic energy delivered from my magnums, particularly with the velocity squared component, has resulted in great expansion on any critter that I've shot with a well placed round, elk or antelope.

 

[26Reload]

I call this the "muffler bearing" theory! When someone has no idea what they are talking about they make stuff up. They think that we also don't know what we are talking about so they can tell us anything they want and we won't know the difference.
Don't give these people anymore of your time or money.

Sounds like the democrats in congress....

 

[Rich Coyle]

BoomFlop,

You need to talk to someone making bullets who actually hunts like Steve at Hammer Bullets. 1(406) 261-0010. By the way my only tie to the company is being a happy customer since He and Brian started making bullets.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The vast majority of my bullet testing has been with our bullet. Higher vel impacts open the bullet faster. Our hole goal has been to make bullets that open as quickly as possible. I can say that when we were trying to make bullets with 1mm hollow points, we could not get them to open up reliably. If there is some yaw to the bullet on impact it makes the hole relatively smaller and more difficult to get fluid into the hole to cause the needed expansion from the inside out. We gave up on the tiny hollow point bullets because they were hit or miss as to whether they would perform properly. We found that a 1.5mm hollow point was the smallest that we could rely on for proper terminal performance. This may or may not be what your issue was.

I do not believe a bullet can be too fast to expand properly. I do believe that a bullet can fail to perform if it is not point oriented properly on impact to cause the necessary expansion. Many bullets if impacted too fast, with proper orientation, will expand too quickly and suffer from not enough penetration.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The vast majority of my bullet testing has been with our bullet. Higher vel impacts open the bullet faster. Our hole goal has been to make bullets that open as quickly as possible. I can say that when we were trying to make bullets with 1mm hollow points, we could not get them to open up reliably. If there is some yaw to the bullet on impact it makes the hole relatively smaller and more difficult to get fluid into the hole to cause the needed expansion from the inside out. We gave up on the tiny hollow point bullets because they were hit or miss as to whether they would perform properly. We found that a 1.5mm hollow point was the smallest that we could rely on for proper terminal performance. This may or may not be what your issue was.

I do not believe a bullet can be too fast to expand properly. I do believe that a bullet can fail to perform if it is not point oriented properly on impact to cause the necessary expansion. Many bullets if impacted too fast, with proper orientation, will expand too quickly and suffer from not enough penetration.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Sorry. Something went goofy and I posted twice.

 

[Barrelnut]

OP, I don't remember too much on the other thread, but if Berger bullets were involved, it is wise to test each bullet and verify that the tip is not clogged with polishing compound, or whatever it is they put in the tip.
Used to be that about 1/4 to 1/3 of Berger hunting bullets would actually have a clogged tip. You have to put a small pin in the tip to see if it is clogged or not. Report is that clogged Berger tips often don't expand, no matter range, from muzzle to infinity.
This has changed though since they relocated to AZ last year. New lots of Berger bullets from the AZ plant, no longer seem to have that problem. I have shot about 500 bullets from the AZ Berger plant and haven't found a clogged tip yet.
Could this have been your issue?

 

[tdot]

Did Berger and Copper Creek know you were shooting with a 7-08 and 308? In your message to Copper, I only see you tell them the bullets you use.

Craziness either way, it's a bizarre thought process on their part, but I wonder if he thought you were shooting some super crazy magnum.

Just outta curiosity, are you consistently having problems with CoreLokt and Interlock bullets? With the 708 and 308? Those bullets are seemingly perfect for those cartridges.

 

[BoomFlop]

Rich Coyle

I'd shoot Hammers if they were offered in loaded ammo. I have spoke to Steve about this, and even heckle him in posts on occasion. He is hoping to get an ammo company to load his bullets, but until that happens I cannot shoot them unfortunately.

tdot

Yes, I was inquiring about 223 Remington, 7mm-08 and 308 Win. My conversation was about seeing if I could get them to load some ammo for these "mild cartridges" to get more speed for more expansion.....he said he "didn't know what a mild cartridge was" and then went onto the conversation I posted.

I agree all!
Steve

 

[Jeremy338]

The kid at the Sportsmans Warehouse gun counter told me a savage rifle with factory ammo is the most accurate package available. Kills stuff all the time past 1k. Lol
I think some people just talk and never really know.
That's what's nice about forums like this is you will get proof driven answers sometimes feeling harsh but true. Never take it to heart.
Typically with speed I see rapid expansion

 

[Rich Coyle]

Sorry. Something went goofy and I posted twice.

Your info is worth a double read.

 

[Warbird2006]

So I reached out to the people at Copper Creek about my search for a bullet that will give me better expansion at ranges under 200 yards from my 7mm-08's and 308 Win.

Some may remember my conversation with the tech at Berger stating I needed to slow them down as they do not have a chance to expand.

Well, Alan at Copper Creek stated the same thing. I do not know how a bullet fired from these cartridges (not magnums) at 100 yards do not have time to expand. You guys with magnums must get penciling out to 400 yards! LOL

I'm at a loss....maybe they are onto something....????

Thanks
Steve

I'd recommend ordering a book The Practical Guide to Long Range Hunting Cartridges from https://www.ballisticstudies.com/ All your questions are answered there.

 

[TheLongRanger83702]

I shoot 30 cal 178 gn. ELDX @ 2750 in my 308 Win. Turns lungs into a raspberry puree with no exit.

 

[Buzzsaw]

sorry, all i now is my daughters Browning X-Bolt Micro Midas, 20" barrel. She exclusively hunts with the Hornaday Custom Lite ammo. I believe its a 127gr SST. She hits them behind the shoulder and they die. One occasion, she had to stalk an axis buck cuzz grass was too tall. She shot it back, took a second shot to anchor. Great bullet for 7mm-08

On the other hand, In my Barret Fieldcrafts 20" 6.5 Creedmoor. The most accurate load in my limited testing was with the Berger 140gr Elite hunter. I shot the buck below at 90 yards, broadside, through the lungs , jumped him after a 30 minute wait cuz he ran out of sight. He stopped about 50 yards I shot him, same place, BIG clot blew out of first shot. two shots, in out out like a pencil hole. The Elite Hunters are GREAT long range bullets IMO.

I have settled down to 2 bullets in my Creed
143ELDX and the FABULOUS Hammers 117 VERY ACCURATE