Bullet Coatings

[Sako7STW]

I have seen where more and more kinds of bullet coatings are coming out. What one do you prefer and why? I have seen things like Lubalox, Moly, and Tungsten, the blue meanies, ect.

Does anyone know what Lazzeroni uses to coat his bullets? I know he says its not Moly so I am thinking maybe its this tungsten stuff. If it is can you do that coating at home?

 

[Lee in OH]

I shoot moly if the rifle likes it. If not, I shoot 'em naked.

I use the moly 'cause it works if used correctly. I'm using a moly pre-coat liquid now. I think it helps to give the barrel a nice and even coat of moly without fouling mixed in. When shooting moly in, after your first shot, you're not completely coating the barrel and you can get copper on the barrel and then lay moly over it. Doesn't make sense to do it like that to me. This may contribute to the 'layering' phenomenon attributed to repeated use of moly. With the moly prep, you clean the barrel completely every few hundred shots, moly and all. Then you lay down a new layer of moly prep on the clean barrel and go back to shooting.

I tried Fastex and found that it does work, but not as good as moly (at least that's been my experience). I haven't experimented with any other coatings so I can't comment on them.

 

[orwapitihunter]

Lazzeroni's bullets are coated with NP3. It's a proprietary coating from Robar. It's some kind of a combination of Nickel and Teflon. Robar use to do the metal work on the Lazz rifles, but I heard that ended a couple of years ago. As far as the bullets, Barnes is supposed to be making them slightly undersized, then Robar plates them which brings them up to finished size. Hope this helps.

 

[Sako7STW]

Well I got my box of Lazzerheads in yesterday to try out in my STW. There was a bit more info that came with the bullets and it does say the NP3 coating and that it is electroplated on these bullets. I rubbed on one for some time and it polished up pretty but nothing came off. I weighed each bullet as well. They claim 120 gr but I found them to be just under 121 gr at 120.7 and I weighed each of them and they were ALL within .05 +or- of each other. Needless t say I was happy with that. They better be good though, for $65 totall for 50.

 

[ghoghunter]

i shoot moly out of my rifless .i huve to run a bore brush after every 60 shots. it seems i loose velocity .has anybody else had simmilar results?bt on the plus it shoots farther an i believe faster

 

[Lee in OH]

Moly will do that (loose velocity with the same load).

The reason is that the moly has a lower coefficient of friction than steel or copper. The bullet slides out of the case neck easier (less pressure) and the peak pressure is lower. Pressure is what pushes the bullet out of the barrel. Soooo..the velocity is lower.

 

[Mikecr]

I use tungsten.
No more copper fouling. I don't know about layering, but and it comes out with little work. I get 100rnds atleast between cleanings, without loss of grouping. By then I think fowder fouling begins to take its toll. Either that, or my constant fiddling.

 

[Jay Kyle]

I've also heard of a product called Gun Juice. A local gunsmith who focuses on tactical/1000 yd work highly recommends it. Anyone ever hear or use it?

AB

 

[Sako7STW]

Mikecr, how do you go about using the tungsten? Or better put, how do you apply the tungsten? Have you compared it with results from moly?

Nope havent heard of gun juice.

 

[Mikecr]

I pour 100 bullets into an aspirin bottle with 1/4teaspoon of tungsten. Put it in a vibratory brass cleaner for 30mins. Then pour them onto a shop cloth in a bowl & sling em around(like panning for gold) till they are polished up to a nice mirror finish.
I rub alittle sizing wax on the bullets after seated.
I haven't tried moly. A friend of mine shot well with moly until it started going downhill quickly. Tight spots in the bore. He has been on lapping duty every since, in his endeavor to rid the stuff out of his barrel. Doesn't sound like alot of fun to me.
I saw accu-whatever10X & figured it was tungsten. Bought some from Rose Mill. It works so far.

[ 02-25-2004: Message edited by: Mikecr ]

 

[Jeff In TX]

I'll join in on this as this was on one of the other boards earlier this week.

Moly will ruin your barrel, no matter how careful you are.

Talk to any quality barrel maker ie: Hart, Shilen, Rock Creek as well as others. Ask them why they will void your warranty if you use moly-coated bullets? Then ask Speedy Gonzales what he sees when he looks into your barrel with his $3000.00 bore scope with only 25 rounds of moly coated bullets through it? They will all tell you the same thing.

I realize many will disagree and they love this stuff, but the fact of the matter is, you cannot moly coat your entire barrel with bullets a lone. Be objective and look at this logically.

The bullet contact surface in the barrel is only so big. It's like trying to wax your entire car with just a tinny dab of wax and starting over at the exact same place each time you apply more wax to applicator. You just can't cover the entire car, but you get a nice wax build up at the starting point. Same thing with trying to moly coat your barrel with moly bullets. You get a nice moly build up right in the throat area and not much moly beyond that.

When your round goes off, moly comes off the contact surface of the bullet in the throat area of the rifle and is bonded to the barrel do to the excessive heat and pressure. Were not talking coated or adhered to, we're talking bonded to. With this, carbon is formed and some of the jacket coating comes off the bullet. Follow this up with another round and you've now embedded carbon and the copper jacket between layers of bonded moly. This is the beginning of the black moly ring, which ruins countless barrels and is so hard; it can hardly be scraped off with a screwdrivers corner edge. This is what happened to a brand new Shilen SS select match barrel I had to have replaced with less than 400 rounds through it.

For those of you who think you'll clean moly out of your barrel with a solvent, you're kidding yourself. Name one gun cleaning solvent that will dissolve Molybdenum Disulfide ( MoS2 ). You're not going to find one. Yes, I'm sure some of these cleaning products will remove loose moly, but not moly that has been bonded to the inside of the barrel. And I really don't think you can brush it out when you clean your rifle with a bronze brush. I doubt you'd like the results after looking through a bore scope. Doug Shilen at Shilen barrels could barely scrape the moly out with the sharp edge of a screwdriver on the barrel I ruined. I could have scrubbed with a bronze brush for days on end and I wouldn't have touched it.

I won't ever use the stuff again. But, I'm sure this debate will continue for another 10 years or so.

[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: Jeff In TX ]

 

[RuffHewn]

Jeff, you might want to talk to Mike Rock again. He recommended moly in my barrel and I have had nothing but outstanding results.

Absent in your post was any indication that you prepped the bore with a moly paste, cream, or spray prior to shooting coated bullets. You also did not state if the barrel was properly broken in or hand lapped to the extent that the barrel maker deemed it was appropriate to begin with moly. Also the barrel must be free of any copper or powder fouling and then cleaned with alcohol prior to moly prep and you did not state if this was done.

**** Poor Preparation = **** Poor Performance

 

[littletoes]

Heard Tubb was working on a zinc coating that was supposed to work better than moly. Anyone else heard anything? I was wondering about a graphite barrel break in technique, since it was so close to moly, and when wetted, it isn't corrosive. But it seems that natural accuring grahpite is too dirty, and the impurities would be to abrasive to be used inside a rifle barrel, well, at least to me. But, what about synthetic graphite? I don't know.

 

[milanuk]

I don't know if it involved zinc exactly, but David Tubb had been involved w/ the development of a clear coating called Veloci-Cote. Supposed to provide all the benefits of moly, w/ fewer of the negatives that people argue back and forth about. I'd been wondering also what happened to that project. In his latest book, 'The Rifle Shooter' he states that it did work as advertised, but it was significantly more expensive than moly, and not *that* much better, so I think it's pretty much been RIP.

HTH,

Monte