After reading some of the replies I wonder if they have realy shot long range much..First let's get this all on the same page, short range (0 to100 y) mid. (100 to 600) long range (600 to 1200 Y) And EX LONG RANGE (1200 to 2000) And Insane (2001 to 2 miles)..For a few years there was about 10 to 20 of us that would meet to shot out to 1000Y each week and once in a wile we would set up and shot dimes at 100y quarters at 300, 50cents at 500y and dallars at 1000y And A few built rifles to shot out to 2 miles.. On a weekend we would go through 200 rounds per rifle..At 80 its getting harder and harder to hold a good grope at 1000 yards..
Bone to pick with new rifle owners - 100 yards out of the box
- Thread starter Gamesniper19
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ATH
Well-Known Member
I joined an "extreme long range" group on facebook. Half the people are asking for starting rifles to shoot 2000 yards, and probably nobody reloads ammo.
I
We are talking as a society in whole, not an individual, doesn't apply here.
Carry on
We are talking as a society in whole, not an individual, doesn't apply here.
Carry on
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Some "guides" are just people helping out to make a few bucks, and their guiding knowledge is next to zero. Here's the two craziest things a "guide" ever told me.
1. "I prefer 30 cal cartridges for deer because the bullet burns down to about 7mm by the time it gets to the deer. It's the friction in the air that burns them down". I thought the guy was just kidding at first, but he wasn't.
2. On a rather unsuccessful bear hunt in Maine, my "guide asks me if I saw anything. I tell him that I could see black shadows moving in the dark. He tells me, "you should have shot them. It may have been the only opportunity you'll get". ***!
I bought one of each so I could be super crazyYou spelt the name of the craze incorrectly.....it's spelt....PRC!
Dude, they pretty much give the DL away, two requirements, you are breathing and you can pay
Nimrod
Well-Known Member
Just read this entire thread! I must agree, some of the things I've seen truly amaze me. I have a part time gig gunsmithing at a little shop. We do mostly repair work, occasionally we get a customer that really has no business with a firearm of any kind. We had a fellow come in a while back (probably 40 years old) with a brand new Savage his mother bought him at a nearby big box store. His complaint was the gun wouldn't fire and he couldn't return it. My first question, what cartridge? His reply six five, me, six five what, him, dumb look (?) I then explained that there were many 6.5 caliber cartridges, his was of course the 6.5 Creedmoor. He had gone to the range with his buddy and not being able to find any ammo he was just using his friends ammo. The shop owner took the rifle back to the test chamber, boom, I looked at the guy and said "it's fixed, that will be 50 bucks" . As it turned out his buddy was shooting an AR chambered in 6.5 Grendel. I suspect the rifle ended up stuck in the back of a closet or sold for a song.
Go down the rabbit hole that is YouTube. There are plenty of examples of people who have no idea what they are doing, shooting well beyond their capability, the bullets capability, using too much/to little magnification, using an inferior rest, little or no time to get setup and have a group of guys encouraging them to continue shooting until they connect by pure blind luck.
I have missed a few deer in 40+yrs of hunting, I have passed on taking shots beyond my comfort level, but I have also let "greed" cloud my judgment and pushed the bullet, rifle and scope combination as well as my ability to the breaking point, albeit I never "lost" a deer, elk or antelope, but I did do some tracking.
When I thought I wanted to get into really long range shooting, I decided I would try. I had pre-64 Model 70 chambered in 300 Weatherby. I got a 55gal lid and painted it bright neon pink. I had a place that I could safely shoot over a mile, old sand and gravel quarry. Rifle had an old Leupold M1 4.5 - 14 on it. No kestrels, no ballistic apps, barely an internet, mid 90s, no mentor, just me and my rifle. It took me 43 times to connect with that lid once. I learned with each subsequent shot. I had a 500yd range and had killed quite a few coyotes out to that distance with a custom 243 while doing coyote/predator control for the county, so I thought this was a cake walk.
That was the most frustrating experience shooting I think I have ever endured, because I would make the same mistakes 2 or 3 times not knowing exactly what effect I was having or the conditions were causing.
These apps, manufacturers, "pro-staff" and even outfitters use people's over confident nature to sell a bill of goods to their customers. People are the disconnect, their brain is disconnected from reality and society is the reason. Everyone gets a trophy and everyone is a Carlos Hathcock, we've done it to ourselves, me included.
I have missed a few deer in 40+yrs of hunting, I have passed on taking shots beyond my comfort level, but I have also let "greed" cloud my judgment and pushed the bullet, rifle and scope combination as well as my ability to the breaking point, albeit I never "lost" a deer, elk or antelope, but I did do some tracking.
When I thought I wanted to get into really long range shooting, I decided I would try. I had pre-64 Model 70 chambered in 300 Weatherby. I got a 55gal lid and painted it bright neon pink. I had a place that I could safely shoot over a mile, old sand and gravel quarry. Rifle had an old Leupold M1 4.5 - 14 on it. No kestrels, no ballistic apps, barely an internet, mid 90s, no mentor, just me and my rifle. It took me 43 times to connect with that lid once. I learned with each subsequent shot. I had a 500yd range and had killed quite a few coyotes out to that distance with a custom 243 while doing coyote/predator control for the county, so I thought this was a cake walk.
That was the most frustrating experience shooting I think I have ever endured, because I would make the same mistakes 2 or 3 times not knowing exactly what effect I was having or the conditions were causing.
These apps, manufacturers, "pro-staff" and even outfitters use people's over confident nature to sell a bill of goods to their customers. People are the disconnect, their brain is disconnected from reality and society is the reason. Everyone gets a trophy and everyone is a Carlos Hathcock, we've done it to ourselves, me included.
nksmfamjp
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2004
- Messages
- 3,202
I think you are spot on. I think we live in an age where an experienced long range shooter can plop their money with gun, glass & ammo…then within 20 shots ring an IPSC at 1000 yards.
I would argue they would need another 100 issue free rounds to become proficient enough with that rifle to be comfortable to 1000 yards on game. That is not learning to shoot at 1000 yards, just learning that rifles quirks.
I think much of what we are talking about here has nothing to do with the tool and everything to do with just not knowing how to shoot. Even a class can get you on a 1000 yard IPSC in 20 rounds, but you need the other 300 plus rounds to develop the skill to shoot even just to the class conditions!
For example, I was shooting my 14" 30 Herrett at 300 yards in 4 - 12 moa 9 o/c winds. I wasn't necessarily learning to shoot, more learning how to hold over/off with my plex reticle. Holding 9.3 moa over and 5 moa left is a little bit of a challenge with a plex reticle. Luckily from center to thick is 6 moa!
Nimrod
Well-Known Member
See how CA Rifles get a bad rep!
No kidding!
I ordered a brand new Christensen Arms Ridgeline chambered in 6.5 PRC just to see if all the hype was true. I got it all set up ready to go and headed to the range with a good supply of factory ammo to get acquainted. I set up at 25 yards, chambered a round and pulled the trigger the shot was just off the point of aim, I lifted the bolt handle and the case would not come out of the chamber. The bolt lift was not hard but the case wouldn't budge. I beat the bolt open with a plastic hammer I keep in my range box and examined the case, there was a large gouge on the base of the case just forward of the rim, the chamber was so badly burred that it took a chamber reamer to fix it. It was very obvious that this rifle was never test fired at the factory! On a gun that retails for over $2000.00 this should NEVER happen. My $350.00 TC Venture .270 shoots circles around it and works every time I pull the trigger and cycle the bolt.
Sorry to drag this OT!
Labwhisper
Active Member
I agree with this^^^. I can also relate to that "72+" age bracket. I know there are "dudes" who try to buy their way into a trophy shot at bragging distance. Some of these individuals have simply not had the necessary exposure or mentoring. Would it not be our job to provide that? But some, sadly would never take advantage of offered advice, learning moments or mentoring. It then becomes our job to keep our selves and those we love away from those individuals.
I can relate to the first group. At the age of 72 I have fallen into the FT/R rabbit hole. I tried to bargain basement "buy my way" into the sport. Savage rifle Athlon scope. Figured for a couple thousand $$ I could get started. Unfortunately the rifle was so jacked up I put 6 rounds down range, blew 2 primers ( 40 plus years of handloading I never blew a primer) boxed it up and shipped it back to Savage. The Athlon scope shows promise. But remember I am a newb to the long range game. A life of hunting in Michigan I never took a shot beyond 125 yds.
Am I the first pensioner to get bit by a new passion? Probably not. The upshot is a rethinking. "In for a penny - in for a pound". 30 cal Bartlien barrels are available if you search hard. Nightforce Competition scopes are available, Kelbly actions, Trigger Tech Diamonds, Seekins Precision rings, friendly experienced barrelsmith who is also a top tier competitor, Alpha SRP brass, Berger 200.20X, VV N140. All these are available and only need lubed by folding green. Holy smokes the folding green! Good thing I am not married anymore.
This to long - finally today she will take her first trip to the range where I will very gently start the break-in process. Almost like the first date with that new perfect 10 girlfriend.
The point - I am lucky to have 2 mentors. I can ask my stupid sometimes comical question in private. I am not subjected to ridicule for being a dummy. I get encouragement, the best advice, correction when I go astray. I am lucky.
In summary, identify those who will benefit from help & guidance and offer that. Put distance between you and he who will not accept help & guidance.
Now... I have never named a rifle but everything is new and exciting. Hmmmm.
Just like anything else in life, you have to put the time in to learn what you are doing and be safe. Money will buy a nice rifle, scope, ammo, and a hunting trip. That same Money is wasted when the individual fails to do their part to learn the rifle, trigger pull, distance, and what is beyond the shooting zone. Shooting 100 yards is a challenge when stuff is not going right. Even when everything is lined up right, shooting long distance still takes practice due the many variables that can affect your shot. Never did like the Creedmoor craze due to the number of idiots it brought to the field in thinking they have a 1,000 yard rifle that can smoke an Elk running in timber downrange. This is the world we live in and I keep trying to expand the buffer between me and these nut jobs.
