Black gun rant

[Boss Hoss]

I have an idea------we could go to your range and when the "rude" people set up next to us then we change the bolt and barrel to the 338 Lapua Improved that is braked!! Man that thing will make your head hurt!!! I use my plugs and ear muffs for that beast!!

I will go out on a limb here and predict that they will move down a few spots. Will never even have to say a word!!

 

[buzzgun]

I read enough of your posts to get your message. You went out of your way to find criticism and the best you could do was feel slighted because GG described the equipment he owned or was entrusted with. Are you really capable of believing the purpose of the post was to describe the cost and value of the guns he owned, or his client's equipment?

You find fault with GG's posts because he describes the equipment he brought to the range and downplay the disrespectfulness of the semi-auto shooter(s).

This is a real winner... buzzgun quote "If you had set up all the way to the left, this would have never happened......"

Now we all understand and thanks for pointing the obvious out to us. It was GG's fault and he got what he had coming because he didn't set up on the left-most benches. Is it also your position that no one can use a vacant bench to the right of semi-auto shooters at the gun range because they have the need to exhaust their empties on the bench to the right, above and beyond the rights of others who would like to use the vacant right side benches? Can we extend this thought process one step further... buzzgun says it's alright to clear the benches to the right for his own use by emptying his semi-auto brass onto the shooter to the right. Is that how you obtain your benches at the shooting range? Move over left of the last bench and then shower the shooter to the right with hot brass.

You seem oversensitive to being wrong. But that doesn't change the fact of the matter.

GG doesn't need my help. But I've solicited his help in the past, and he brings valued information to the forum. What you seem to bring is ATTITUDE.

Get a grip dude! I agreed with him that spraying hot brass on fellow shooters was rude......however, if you doubt for one second that GG was looking down his nose at the black rifle guys, you can easily remove all doubt when you read this part of his post:

"It didn't seem to bother them that they were spitting hot brass all over thousands of dollars worth of equipment that I doubt they could pay for. "

If that sound like he thinks he has more right to be there because his stuff costs more.......well, your head is firmly planted in the sand......


By the way, I don't spray brass.......on other shooters.......I either use a brass catcher or make sure I'm far enough away that they don't get hit.......

 

[buzzgun]

Wait a minute, didn't you tell me that you had several black guns that were worth much more than my Walmart priced bench gun? Yet I didn't feel you were an elitist for saying it. You were proving your point that you spent waaayy too much for an AR and I was showing the value of property that was being damaged by guns similiar to your expensive rig.

Here's another observation:
I find it very peculiar that people who like to label others as elitists get offended so much by them. It all seems like it's rooted in insecurities of their own, otherwise, why would they care what they think of them? Or in other words, the category of "elitist" is created by these insecure people out of jealousy, disdain, or generalizing which is the very same finger they point and use to blame the "elitists" for doing! Very ironic.

Nope, I said: "if we are playing "mine is bigger than yours" based on price tags.......I've got "black rifles" that make your $3000 custom look like a WalMart Savage....."

I wasn't proving that I "spent waaayy too much for an AR".......(I wasn't referring to my ARs) I was making the point that some "black rifles" cost more than all the equipment you had on all three benches combined......

You can claim that you weren't looking down your nose at the black rifle guys, but your post suggests otherwise......when you mention your "thousands of dollars worth of equipment that I doubt they could pay for".......your words tell the tale.....

Have a nice day!

 

[Pdvdh]

So if GG had been using army surplus weapons his post would have been legitimate, but because you decide to conclude he was flaunting the value of his guns and peripheral equipment, his post is without merit? How did he flaunt it? By bringing his guns and equipment out to the range? And how in your mind does that even factor into the behavior of the guys ejecting their empties on him?

Did GG say he mentioned anything to the shooters at the range about how his equipment was better than theirs because it cost more than their equipment did, and that because of those reasons he had a priority use of the benches at the range? That he was high class and they were low class based on the weapons they were shooting. Not that I read. That's an issue you created to conclude GG might have had it coming.

When the majority of posters disagree with you; when after the folley of your argument has been plainly illustrated; and you continue to hold on in the effort to save face and justify your position, then I say...

Wrong... and ATTITUDE

You miss the whole point of the thread and now try to justify your errant position by hanging onto a justification that you created, not GG.

I'll let you have the last say so if you'll sleep better. I can handle it...

 

[guns_and_labs]

Now if they show up with a H&K 308 watch out. I have never seen anything eject brass that hard.

You've got that right. My HK SL7 will cause a concussion if you're hit by an empty. I have to sit at the bench at the far right, because no one is safe (and brass catchers won't fit).

But then, I've always found the little Ruger 10/22's and 10/17's much more annoying. At least a .223 shell will bounce off, but those little rimfires find the holes in your shirt and dive right in!

 

[Boss Hoss]

Nope, I said: "if we are playing "mine is bigger than yours" based on price tags.......I've got "black rifles" that make your $3000 custom look like a WalMart Savage....."

I wasn't proving that I "spent waaayy too much for an AR".......(I wasn't referring to my ARs) I was making the point that some "black rifles" cost more than all the equipment you had on all three benches combined......

You can claim that you weren't looking down your nose at the black rifle guys, but your post suggests otherwise......when you mention your "thousands of dollars worth of equipment that I doubt they could pay for".......your words tell the tale.....

Have a nice day!

Do me a favor and send me some of what you are smoking----I have had them all AI AWM's, PSG1, SR90, Stoners (want to buy a SR25 RAS or SR15 RAS with a ATN Gen3+ weapon sight with Pelican case Mil-Spec tube or one with a USO SN4) every brand of the AR platform including Les and his excellent stuff. Hell if you think that they are that great send me a PM as I have a deal for you!!

The only rifles that have been able to shoot with my customs are other customs but then they are built to much tighter tolerances than the "black ops stuff" My AI AWM's in 338 are very impressive for what they are but you will not win any BR shooting contests with them.

Here we have one of the better known "black gun" ranges west of town about 70 miles called Tac Pro(Bill Davidson a great guy btw is the sole owner after his now ex moved back to England) and we go out there to shoot the 400 yard clay pigeon shoots. There are no backers or berms close enough to judge where your round hits so skill is paramount. I always get a kick out of pounding the "black gun or sniper" wannabe's some of which are my friends who compete in the tactical discipline and it is fun!

Now we all know a rifle with a 1oz trigger with no safety is a special purpose rifle and would not last 10 minutes in a combat environment. The other point is market price is just that --- a PSG1 is obsolete from a deployment standpoint but commands a price in excess of 15k so market value does not necessarily represent the required intrinsic value imho so to speak but to each his own.

 

[buzzgun]

So if GG had been using army surplus weapons his post would have been legitimate, but because you decide to conclude he was flaunting the value of his guns and peripheral equipment, his post is without merit? How did he flaunt it? By bringing his guns and equipment out to the range? And how in your mind does that even factor into the behavior of the guys ejecting their empties on him?

Did GG say he mentioned anything to the shooters at the range about how his equipment was better than theirs because it cost more than their equipment did, and that because of those reasons he had a priority use of the benches at the range? That he was high class and they were low class based on the weapons they were shooting. Not that I read. That's an issue you created to conclude GG might have had it coming.

When the majority of posters disagree with you; when after the folley of your argument has been plainly illustrated; and you continue to hold on in the effort to save face and justify your position, then I say...

Wrong... and ATTITUDE

You miss the whole point of the thread and now try to justify your errant position by hanging onto a justification that you created, not GG.

I'll let you have the last say so if you'll sleep better. I can handle it...

Apparently you can't READ.......I never said GG deserved to be sprayed with hot brass and I said it wouldn't matter what type of equipment he had on the bench.....they shouldn't have sprayed him with hot brass......I also never said he said anything to the black gun guys about what his equipment is worth.......pay attention!

As far as what the majority thinks......ever heard of the mob mentality??......and, by the way, according to polls, the majority think Obama should be the next president.......does that make them right????

 

[buzzgun]

Do me a favor and send me some of what you are smoking----I have had them all AI AWM's, PSG1, SR90, Stoners (want to buy a SR25 RAS or SR15 RAS with a ATN Gen3+ weapon sight with Pelican case Mil-Spec tube or one with a USO SN4) every brand of the AR platform including Les and his excellent stuff. Hell if you think that they are that great send me a PM as I have a deal for you!!

The only rifles that have been able to shoot with my customs are other customs but then they are built to much tighter tolerances than the "black ops stuff" My AI AWM's in 338 are very impressive for what they are but you will not win any BR shooting contests with them.

Here we have one of the better known "black gun" ranges west of town about 70 miles called Tac Pro(Bill Davidson a great guy btw is the sole owner after his now ex moved back to England) and we go out there to shoot the 400 yard clay pigeon shoots. There are no backers or berms close enough to judge where your round hits so skill is paramount. I always get a kick out of pounding the "black gun or sniper" wannabe's some of which are my friends who compete in the tactical discipline and it is fun!

Now we all know a rifle with a 1oz trigger with no safety is a special purpose rifle and would not last 10 minutes in a combat environment. The other point is market price is just that --- a PSG1 is obsolete from a deployment standpoint but commands a price in excess of 15k so market value does not necessarily represent the required intrinsic value imho so to speak but to each his own.

You assume WAY to much.......didn't make any accuracy claims for my or any other black rifles, said some of them COST more than all the stuff GG had on the benches......so who is it that is smoking something???.......or maybe you have problems reading too???

 

[Pdvdh]

There ya go, once again you've fully explained yourself and your motives... I read just fine and understand completely.

You're right in your own mind. Everyone else, including GG, has it all wrong. buzzgun has it being GG's fault. GG should have given priority to the the other guys because according to buzzgun, he esposed an air of superiority simply due to the rifles and equipment he brought to the range. Never mind that GG never vocalized any statements about his equipment being higher class than their equipment. Secondly, and this tells us all we really need to know about buzzgun... if GG had only taken his rightful bench at the range, he wouldn't have brought these problems on himself and life would have been great. But possibly not so great for the next shooter to occupy the bench to the right of the disrespectful guys with the buzzguns. Which is what this thread was all about yet you choose to ignore that completely.

Comply with two buzzgun conditions; 1) bring weapons and equipment to the range that buzzgun finds acceptable and 2) select a bench that buzzgun finds acceptable, and then buzzgun is content and has no objections. Why not add a 3rd condition - don't use the gun range when the disrespectfuls show up. Just concede the range.

Are you nonya in disguise?

Provided you get to control other peoples lives, you sleep like a baby. When you can't, you cry like one.

 

[goodgrouper]

however, if you doubt for one second that GG was looking down his nose at the black rifle guys, you can easily remove all doubt when you read this part of his post:

"It didn't seem to bother them that they were spitting hot brass all over thousands of dollars worth of equipment that I doubt they could pay for. "

If that sound like he thinks he has more right to be there because his stuff costs more.......well, your head is firmly planted in the sand......

Buzzgun,

Here is where you are missing the boat. The whole idea of this post was not who has the right to be at the range based on equipment. The idea was that when people are there with automatics, they need to be more considerate and it seems to be more of a problem with that group than any other.

If you think I sound like I'm better than these guys, than that is your judgement. It doesn't bother me a bit. I have been called an elitist a time or two before, but interestingly, only by people who don't know me or what I do. By being educated and well versed in the more extensive aspects of ballistics and firearms, those who are less educated usually throw this at me. No biggie. I am not going to unlearn everything I know just to please the "rambo wannabes". Does that mean that the rambo guys don't deserve the right to own guns? NO! DOes that mean the rambo guys shouldn't get to use the rifle range? NO! Does that mean that when they show up and spray lead all over the place that those who are there to shoot accurately should go over to them and talk down to them? NO! Does the fact that the rifle they chose to bring mean they are not serious about their sport? NO! But I think we've all been to the range enough times to see the same thing I witnessed and if you haven't, you will. Trust me.

ANd if you had seen most of these guys at the range that day, you would have taken the same bet that they couldn't pay for any damage they would have caused. COme to think of it, I don't know too many people at all who carry 10 grand around in their wallet!

Btw, I'd like to know what kind of a black gun you bought and who signed it to make it total more than $10,000? Unless Angelina Jolie made love to it and John Hancocked it, you got skrewed. My friends who are bigtime into tactical shooting have spent a pretty penny on black guns and they aren't even half that. ANd it sounds like Boss Hoss has darn well had every kind of AR and he can't fathom the amount you're talking either.

 

[mjbine]

Been off the site for awhile (been busier than a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest) but I need to start a new thread tonight and rant a little. Bear with me and if you have a "black gun", don't shoot me.

Ok, here's the scenario:
I'm at the local shooting range today and it's saturday so it's open to the public. I usually try to avoid the public days and just go when I'm the only one there but I'm so busy I had to go today. So anyhow, I'm hogging three benches on the leftish side of the range. I've got my own custom $3000 dollar rifle and $1000 rest setup one one bench along with $2000 worth of reloading gear, barrel coolers, powder throwers and other miscelaneous gear on one bench. Then I have a two clients rifles totaling $3000 or better set up on the other two benches. Now, I know it sounds piggish taking up three benches but there were 7 others that were empty off and on all day and even during the busiest hours, there was always at least one bench open. And I was working on all three at the same time waiting for barrels to cool so it wasn't like they were just sitting on the bench not being shot.

Ok, so I said I set up on the "leftish" side of the range. This means that there were two benches to my left and 5 open benches to my right. Well, I guess I should have set up on the farthest left bench because I came to find out that this was Black Saturday. Of the 20 some odd people that showed up to shoot today, more than half of them had AR15's. Of those 11 or 12 guys, 10 of them had to set up on the bench left of mine. Now, as you probably know, AR's fling brass out the right side. I take that back. They fling HOT AS HELL brass out the right side. And wouldn't you know, it never occurs to these black gun shooters what happens to the guy (and/or gear) to the right of them when they pull the trigger. Well, almost never. THere was one guy out of the 11 or 12 that took one look at my spread and set up right of me. The rest just kept flinging brass onto myself and gear until I finally had to request that they either get a brass catcher or move benches. They looked at me like I was from Mars. Brass catcher? What's that? Are you nuts? Can't you just deal with it? Well, no, I can't. Why should I? It's their responsibility to keep the range clean and the range safe just as much as mine. It's also common courtesy to be aware of your surroundings and fellow shooters on the range and not spit hot brass at them or their equipment. I had more coin on the benches with me than all their **** lead sprayers put together and it never occured to them that I might not want to have brass "tingging" off of any of it!

ANyways, after some edjumicating of the black gun enthusiasts, the rest of the day went ok as they found a new home on the right benches.

Now I have nothing against "black guns". I have shot many of them and know they have their place(it's on the right). I would even own one if I wasn't left handed and could stand to have my shooting finger hand so far down from the center of gravity. But I am and I can't so I don't have one. But IF I DID, I would spend the $20 to get a brass catcher and even then I would try to be on the right of other shooters even if all they had was a 10-22 and a Tasco spotting scope.

Ok, I'm done with the ranting. I just hope those of you here who own semi-autos take this to heart and be aware if you aren't already. Have a great day!

stagarms.com for left handed AR-15. I have three. They are sweet.

 

[jwp475]

You assume WAY to much.......didn't make any accuracy claims for my or any other black rifles, said some of them COST more than all the stuff GG had on the benches......so who is it that is smoking something???.......or maybe you have problems reading too???

I think that you need to take a Midol

 

[Boss Hoss]

You assume WAY to much.......didn't make any accuracy claims for my or any other black rifles, said some of them COST more than all the stuff GG had on the benches......so who is it that is smoking something???.......or maybe you have problems reading too???

Sorry but my post went over your head --- I know what you were implying and so does everyone else..

 

[gamedog]

Hold her up fella's. I need to go grab a fresh bag of popcorn