Better 6mm (not 243W) for hunting? Which one?

[25WSM]

I don't have a 240wby reamer so haven't built one to try. But rl26 should boost it. The 2 Creed cases really respond to rl26. I have a 6mm06ai but haven't put rl26 in it yet.
Shep

 

[muleystalker]

I've never seen a powder wake up a cartridge so much as the midsize 6s with rl26.
Shep

Not temp stable enough for me, we could be shooting at 40* at 7am and 100*+ by noon.

 

[muleystalker]

6mm cm does NOT have more oomph than 243! The 243 has a little more oomph if you handload. Otherwise they are ballistically the same. If you want a step up there are other 6mm/243 options. Just dont belueve that the crreds are ballistically superior. Their positive is relatively inexpensive, match grade ammo for long range shooters, so that they dont need to craft handloaded match ammo.

The 6 CM is not a Creedmoor its a 6 Competition Match, a wildcat built off a .243 case with the shoulder is pushed forward to 31* its built to have case capacity to take advantage of the cooler burning H1000 and usually throated to shoot the 110gr SMK's and the 115 DTACS usually. You can get well over 3200 FPS but most run the between 3100-3200FPS to get better barrel life. They have been know to get 3000-4000 rounds of barrel life in a competition setting i.e.; high round count and short time of fire.

I built a wildcat variant of it, the 6 Black Rock, ran 6br reamer in deep and I use 6br dies to load. It has a bit more capacity than the 6CM. It's shoulder gets pushed forward more than the CM and to 30* and the a lot of the taper gets blown out. I use .243 Norma brass and fire forming is easy and FF rounds are very accurate. Enough so that I use them in matches. I shoot the 115 DTACS myself at a comfortable 3200fps with H1000. I did it that way because I had an action and barrel along with the dies and a buddy had the reamer,very low cost and shoots great.

 

[muleystalker]

Yes, LRH forum! Not every shot is long range though.

I've taken dogs at ~20 yards so, sometimes a ~50 yard shot could be considered long! For a dedicated long range rifle (real long range meaning >400 yards), I would do a real high velocity hammer!

Realistically though, most shooting will be inside ~200 yards so, trajectory and windage concerns are minor along with potential velocity loss. Larger feral hogs will always benefit from a bigger cartridge but, I use a 6.8SPC AR-15 for intended feral hog hunting. For nuisance coyotes, I want more than 5.56 in a handy package that isn't hard on my shoulder or wallet! With better barrel life, I can recreationally shoot a lot a more and skill build with my 'hunting' rifle assuming I'm not shooting something really expensive to reload because of brass costs (case loss, obscurity, difficult fireforming, etc.).

Post-Shoulder surgery, the thought of 'sharp' recoil from a hyper-6mm is a bit scary as I don't want develop a flinch or general avoidance of the rifle in question.

If those are the circumstances I would look at building a 6 Dasher, I shoot one in 1000 yard F-class comps regularly and they perform well. Im shooting 110gr SMK's at 3014fps. It will do everything you need with less recoil and the utmost accuracy. Once you shoot one you want one. I have 4 of them and just built my daughter one for F-Class, she went to the Dasher from the 6x47L, they can real finicky in load development, they sure aren't like their 6.5x47L brothers. LOL.

 

[25WSM]

Muley stalker sorry but the 6cm does not have the sides of the case blown out. It retains the original 243 taper. It also does not have more capacity than the 243ai. I don't know where you got this info but it is incorrect.
For the record I never call the 6creed a 6cm. They are 2 different cartridges. If I say 6cm I'm referring to the 6 compatition match. I always call the creeds a Creed.
Not trying to be mean here but just getting the proper facts to light on the 6cm.
Shep

 

[muleystalker]

25WSM, I never stated you said anything. At least not that I can see. If you look at the quote it was directed to
tooth doc,

"6mm cm does NOT have more oomph than 243! The 243 has a little more oomph if you handload. Otherwise they are ballistically the same. If you want a step up there are other 6mm/243 options. Just dont belueve that the crreds are ballistically superior."

Sorry Shep, it must be the early hour and you misread or something but its all good. It also must be the early morning that caused me not to proof read before I hit post. I must have been thinking ahead too much as I was typing, the part about blowing out some body taper and having more capacity than the AI was meant for my last paragraph pertaining to my wildcat. It's all good though.

Dave

 

[Sid Post]

Put any high bc bullet in that 244 and it will keyhole. Yes all the 6mms are 243 dia. But the 6creed comes with an 8 twist barrel and can shoot virtually any 6mm bullet. The 243 and 6mmrem can not. A factory 243 can't shoot 105 Berger's or 107 mk or 115dtacs. Or any other bullet in this class. Don't even pretend you can do it in a 244 or 6mmrem. Not going to happen. Not unless you rebarrel them. Even the 240 wby can't shoot the high bc 6mms. Any 100 grain bullet shooting in a 244 is a short stubby bullet and will not have a high bc.
Shep

I hear you on the High BC options. So yes, running a reamer into some random 6mm barrel with an old 'twist' won't work as expected if I'm thinking new generation heavies for across the canyon or goats or distant pronghorns.

I'm assuming any rebarrel options for pseudo-wildcats would be appropriate for the heavies. Personally, I don't see myself going to the rebarrel expense though, reaming a good barrel might be. Realistically, a premium factory rifle in the $1,000~$1,500 range is probably a lot more appropriate for me than rebarreling a standard rifle.

Realistically, 6mm Creedmoor is an easy choice that can be downloaded for target practice and shooting dogs inside 200 yards and good factory options for distant work are cost effective too.

A Ruger American Predator at ~$350~400 at ~6.5# with a 1x7.7 twist is probably a good place to start for something modern to test the waters on dogs and hogs. A 243Win with a 1x9 twist might be a good candidate for a reamer for a newer whizz bang derivative.

My current 5.56 love affair has a 1x7 barrel but, I guess I'm a bit old school as I generally find the 1x9 twist barrels to work a bit better for me and what I shoot (no Tracers )! In fact I'm looking for a 1x12 'cost effective" barrel for some 40 grain options.

 

[Sid Post]

If those are the circumstances I would look at building a 6 Dasher, I shoot one in 1000 yard F-class comps regularly and they perform well. Im shooting 110gr SMK's at 3014fps. It will do everything you need with less recoil and the utmost accuracy. Once you shoot one you want one. I have 4 of them and just built my daughter one for F-Class, she went to the Dasher from the 6x47L, they can real finicky in load development, they sure aren't like their 6.5x47L brothers. LOL.

Actually, for the really close in stuff, I'm thinking 40gr out of a ~20" AR-15. Hogs at ~20 yards never happen for me as they are very gun shy. Coyotes never really get inside 50 yards with a close shot being ~75 yards. Aggressive pets / dogs, yes I've been stalked by small packs, are very close to the longest cow chaser being 250~300 yards. I've upgraded to a Glock 40 pistol in addition to my rifle for those situations, though a 5" 9mm is tempting for ease of carry but, I'm waffling because the DRT (dead right there) factor is a bit low with a highly motivated dog.

For close shots I really want a hand grenade that lets the red mist fly. When the ranges stretch out, a bit more put down is desired. Coming full circle, deer and dogs are normally inside 200 yards so, a 1,000~1,200 yard steel load probably isn't optimal. I have taken dogs at ~300 yards but, that is well within most 6mm options without specialized high BC options. For hogs to be honest, I'll be a lot happier when I'm shooting my heavy 6.8SPC AR-15 or .308W AR-10 as they are tough and I want them dead, though a run off to be Coyote food is acceptable to me for those destructive critters (way worse than Coyotes in terms of economic damage).

So, I guess anything from a 6BR option to a 6mm PRS caliber are pretty good options though, I'd likely need a different rifle for Pronghorn (thinking 400 yards+) or a once in a lifetime Mountain Goat. With a bit of PT (Physical Training) and additional healing of the shoulder, one of my older Remington Sendero's could certainly whack a Pronghorn or Mountain Goat assuming I don't use a 308W (FN A3G or older PRS style option).

 

[muleystalker]

Sid post, A 6 dasher with a Berger bullet from 95gr, 105gr, 108-109gr,or 115gr would do antelope at 400yards all day long easy. Actually the 110gr SMK does a great job on antelope and deer, I have seen and taken several myself out too 800yrds with them in the Dasher. The 95gr Bergers would have some wow factor at Dasher velocities on yotes and dogs. The 87gr VMAX has a really long bearing surface and have shot nice out of my Dashers throated for the longer bullets, talk about splat factor! LOL Im getting ready to try the 80gr 6mm Badlands Bulldozer out of one of my Dashers this year for antelope, its a monolithic bullet.

 

[BEEMAN]

We think alike muleystalker. I want to try the 101 HH in my dasher this year. Just waiting for the guys at Hammer to give the go ahead that they're ready to ship to Canada. Those Dasher are just so much fun to shoot. I was very impressed at the performance of mine with only a 22" barrel.

 

[Eagel Builder]

243 AI . Lot brass of different brands. Easy to fire form. Ruger 77 RS SS .

 

[muleystalker]

We think alike muleystalker. I want to try the 101 HH in my dasher this year. Just waiting for the guys at Hammer to give the go ahead that they're ready to ship to Canada. Those Dasher are just so much fun to shoot. I was very impressed at the performance of mine with only a 22" barrel.

I have some 100gr Badlands Bulldozers that have a .575 BC, I'm going to shoot in my 6SST out of a 1:7 twist. I'm thinking of having a 1;6 twist made for a dasher to shoot this bullet, it would be a little LR Hammer on deer and antelope.

 

[MZmoose]

That is impressive, I did not realize you could get that from a creed in a carry rifle. Does a 105 A-Max penetrate with an impact velocity over 2800FPS? That sounds like it could just be a flat out bomb.

Don't shoot big game with the 105gr Amax. I currently use them for yotes. They completely come apart on dogs and sometimes they don't exit. Super accurate and buck the crosswinds where I hunt dogs, but definitely not a big game bullet, IMO.

 

[Sid Post]

Yes, a lot of the 'target' oriented bullets lack proper construction for effective hunting of normal game animals. Skinny coyotes and similar won't be a problem generally but, deer and similar can be problematic especially with the smaller lighter target options.

The factory Oryx 6XC is one of things that originally attracted me to it. Federal Fusion and others in more mainstream calibers will work well too. Target loads, not so much unless you are talking about the larger options with caveats ...