Which one is better?

[sewwhat89]

I have been reading up on this, but there seems to be no consensus. Which method should produce, day in day out, better results?

Loading the bullet to touch the lands

or

Loading the bullet to where the FB or top of BT is level with the neck of the case

The reason I ask is my 300 WM. The rifle has a long freebore. In order for me to get the bullets out to the lands, the OAL is 3.665". To seat the bullet down to where the top of the bt is level with the case neck would make the OAL around 3.345".

I know the bottom line is I will have to try both, but I am just wondering which one is more important to you.

 

[4ked Horn]

You have .320" to go from seated all the way in (as per your stated desire to not go below the base of the neck (search for info on "the dreaded doughnut")) and touching the lands. Unless you are shooting some realy long necked case you have no chance of touching the lands and having enough contact with the neck to hold the bullet square. (limited concentric runout)

I would either not chase the lands at all and go for max mag length or have Richard Graves at Wildcat bullets work up a bullet in the weight and caliber you are trying to load for but have him trim the jackets long and move the ogive forward. This is exactly what he may be doing for me since my rem 700 lands are unreachable with standard factory bullets. If his bullets were not available I would be loading to the longest length that will fit in my mag. Since he can stretch a bullet I will sacrifice using my mag and instead go for the accuracy of putting them close to the lands (.000"-.030" off)

One last thing. Touching the lands is not always the best or safest thing to do. If you choose a bullet with a heavy jacket you may need to come off the lands .030" to prevent a pressure spike from damaging you and the gun.

 

[sewwhat89]

I understand about the pressure spike with the lands and all, but I am playing with Berger's. Everyone I have spoken with says they need/like 0.005" into the lands. That's what I did with the 190s, and they shoot great. The problem is when I loaded the 175s the same way, they are only seated about 0.1" into the case. You cannot budge them, but I was afraid that was too little neck tension; however, they too shot very well if not better than the 190s.

I have not finished my load selection just yet, but with the bullet touching the lands like they currently are, I am already 2 gr over the max listed and still no signs of any pressure. Most sources list 76 to 76.9 gr of RL 22 for the 180 gr class, and I have shot 78.5 with the 190s at 3100 fps. No flattening of the primer or anything. I would have to go 80 gr to get them compressed and maybe not even then.

I guess I'll use my other die and seat some down to mag-length and see what happens with milder loads and work up again. Maybe I'll find something even better.

Thanks for the info 4ked

 

[coupalr]

I have found that with 79.5gr RL-22 and 168gr a-maxs I get some flattening of the primers when it is above 72degrees. With all off the fooling around you are doing, why not get the barrel removed and rechambered with a shorter throat. Also a good time to true up the receiver and barrel faces.

 

[sewwhat89]

The barrel is pristine. Its a Sako Finnbear with Bofors steel barrel. It shoots great, I am just asking for my own information.

 

[Guest]

Really a mute issue as rifles/barrels are all different! Just because one likes a particular method...DOES NOT MEAN....that this will work for the next!

Got a buddy in Tulsa that shot Palma with me and one year he had a rifle that would only shoot if the bullets were backed up 0.050" OFF THE LANDS!!

Go figure! They're ALL DIFFERENT!!

 

[goodgrouper]

The key to this whole thing is doing load development from start to finish with the bullet where you or the rifle wants it to be.

By that I mean, if you need to use your magazine, then seat the bullets so they just fit and start working up with the powder charges.

If you are shooting Berger vld's, you will most likely HAVE to shoot them into the lands because that is where they <font color="blue"> usually </font> shoot the best. Load them into the jam, and then start fresh with a starting load and work up from there like you never tried any off the lands prior.


If there is one thing that I have learned over the years that will help people with this question, it is this:

<font color="red"> EVERY </font> cartridge has <font color="red"> TWO </font> so called "sweet spots" with bullet seating. One far from the lands and one closer to it. The key is to seat the bullet at different depths around your needs (mag fed or single shot) and find the spot. My 300 win mag for example is on a Browning action and has the shortest box magazine known to man. I have no choice but to seat the bullets in a manner that will fit the mag for hunting. This leaves me about .130" jump to the rather long throated lands. Does this mean I'm skrewed? Of course not. I just have to find the "short" lenght sweet spot instead of the long length one.

I started doing load development with the short length depth and found the right bullet, powder, powder charge, primer, and case and BINGO, this gun shoots 1/4"-3/8" every time I take her out.

Out of curiosity, last summer I decided to see if I could find the "long" depth sweet spot. I loaded them single shot long and started from scratch with my load development. At .005" off the lands, I got the same sized groups but it was with 1.5 grains less powder and the velo was almost 125 fps faster. THis happened because pressures rise as the bullet nears the lands. THis is why you must redo the powder charge from start to max like you have never shot the gun before.

So, you can see I found both sweet spots and both shot equally well.

Don't be afraid to seat them deeper if you aren't getting the performance you hoped for. I would have kept going deeper on my 300 until the ogive was barely hanging out of the case if I had to. And if you are shooting VLD's, don't be afraid to keep ramming them into the jam until they shoot. I have one gun that is seated so far into the lands that if I load a cartridge into the chamber, I must shoot it because it will not come back out in one piece. It dumps powder all over the place and leaves the bullet in the throat but that is the way the gun likes it!

Hope this helps.

 

[4ked Horn]

Hey GG that was a great reply. I will try finding that short sweet spot with the Wildcats in my .308. Nothing would make me happier than to be shooting the bullet I want from my mag. I was resigned to the notion of having to load the ULDs closer than the mag would allow.