Berger Bullets 4 Hunting

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by cohunt, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. cohunt

    cohunt Well-Known Member

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    So I have a question about berger bullets for hunting

    I am not a berger basher as I've only tried 1 of their bullets in 1 of my guns (130 vld Hunter in my 270 win rem 700) so I feel I don't have enough info and testing to denounce them--BUT no matter what I did I could not get that bullet to shoot in my 270w rifle--this rifle shoots 130's 140's and 150's from the nosler brand bullets lights out, easy to find the accuracy node, but I could not find a good node with those bergers.

    My other experience with bergers is my buddy did a test with the same 130 vld hunter in his 270 win tikka t3 lite at 3100 fps mv--he was able to find an accuracy node BUT his testing showed the bullets wanted to yaw and tumble on impact and NOT brake up on impact--- he tested at 100y, 200y, & 300y and he used 3 types of media : dry newspapers, wet newspapers, and ballistic gel and every time the bullet yawed and tumbled and did not brake up.

    I see LOTS of people here using them so I wanted to hear your opinion on hunting effectiveness (good or bad so I have both sides of the story)

    I'm thinking of trying them in my 7rem mag and was wondering if 1 was better than the other (since I only have experience with the vld hunter) "VLD hunter vs Elite Hunter"--my buddy called Berger and they told him all the hunting bullets used the same jacket thickness and construction.

    the 3 options I have for my rifle/twist rate would be the 168 VLD Hunter, the 175 Elite Hunter, and the 180 VLD Hunter (1:9 twist)

    What is the minimum expansion speed for these bullets?

    What is your real world experience with them on animals? (since my buddy only tested media not flesh)-- good or bad, what were the results, calculated speed on impact, and distance of impact

    When I did try the 130 VLD Hunter in my 270win, I did read and try the suggested seating depth procedure and could not get good accuracy results---any pointers if I do try them in my 7 mag?
    [for reference my mag allows me to seat out to 3.375-3.38" and the 162 eld-x (similar weight high BC bullet for comparison) hits lands in this gun at 3.4" and has a decent accuracy node for the 162 eldx at 3.345"]

    I'm not trying to start any bullet brand wars here, just looking for real world effectiveness and pointers for finding the accuracy node
     
  2. jrock

    jrock Well-Known Member

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    If you don't get acceptable accuracy out of one bullet, try a different weight. You could try several weights but to a point, its better to switch bullet brands. Shoot what is most accurate and acceptable for hunting. Every gun is different so you won't know until you try. Most of the other questions you have can be answered with a quick search.
     
  3. TexSavage

    TexSavage Well-Known Member

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    Well, my experience is with the 300WSM and I have shot the Berger 185 Hunting VLD with excellent accuracy and excellent game harvesting, mainly white tail at 100-300 yd ranges. I have switched to the 215 Hybrid which is holding .5 to .7 MOA all the way out to 800 yards. I used the methods explained on this forum and from Berger regarding seating depth. The 185's allowed me to load my blind mag Savage Model 12 with a full number of rounds.

    When I tried the 215 Hybrids I used the same seating as the 185's, which caused me to be a single round only due to the increased length of the 215 Hybrid. After doing some reading and wanting to make an attempt to seat a little lower for magazine requirements I have just completed my first test. I ended up moving the bullet down so much that it allowed for rounds in my mag again. Accuracy is still spot on and my POI moved less than .25 MOA at 100 yards. I then went out to 600 yards and I made multiple hits on a 12" steel using my same corrections as before I moved the seating depth. Broz has a great thread on this forum regarding his testing and switching to the 215 Hybrid. He is a phenomenal shooter ad hunter. You can learn a lot from him. I currently have close to 400 rounds with the 215 down range. My longest kill to date with the 215 hybrid is about 350 yards, longest shot presented to me so far in the three seasons I have used the 215. Exit wound was the size of a baseball or slightly larger. Longest steel hits was 800 yards on 12" and 6" steel. Both were multiple shot strings on each target.

    Sorry for the long post, and the fact I don't have 7mm or 270 experience with the Berger. If you get a 7MM I'd make sure the twist rate is in line with Berger recommendations, I'd check stabilization using the online stabilization calculators, and I'd sure try the Hybrid Berger has listed for 7MM. I know it's listed under "Target" bullets and I respect the Berger guys, but the 215 Hybrid is a game killing machine and I have no reason to believe the 7mm Hybrid won't be the same way. Just click the link below for Broz's 215 testing. One of the most complete tests and incredible threads I have ever read.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/index12.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
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  4. cohunt

    cohunt Well-Known Member

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    yea, the hybrid may work or it may not since its listed as 1:8 twist --my twist is 1:9.25 but Im at altitude--range is at 6500msl, and I hunt from 7000-11000msl

    thanks 4 the link, I'll try to read all 32 pages when as I get time here and there
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  5. cohunt

    cohunt Well-Known Member

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    OK so I read the whole thread, but im not sure i absorbed 100% of it yet, but those 215 hybrids seem pretty impressive IF I had a 300wm, or 300 wsm--but I'm working on my 7rem mag right now

    so it seems that Berger is sugesting 1:9 for the 215-30 cal, but it is used quite well in 1:10 and even down to 1:12 308w

    so do you think the 180 hybrid for the 7mm would work for my 1:9.25 twist rate even though berger suggests 1:8?
     
  6. Dosh

    Dosh Well-Known Member

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    co, between friends, relatives and myself we have seven 7mm Rem mags. They are 1:9-1:9.25 twist and all shoot the Berger 168VLDH with H1000 lights out. Between the seven, tons of elk and mule deer have been killed at various ranges. The odd thing is all loads are within .3gr of each other. I'm the only one who hasn't killed anything with mine, but I have other rifles for hunting. The stock on mine is too beautiful and pristine to hunt.
     
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  7. BEEMAN

    BEEMAN Well-Known Member

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    The Berger 168 Classic Hunter was very easy to tune in my 280AI Cooper. Could try that in your 7 Mag.
     
  8. TexSavage

    TexSavage Well-Known Member

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    Cohunt, I think it would be worth a try. my rifle is a 1 in 10" twist. Go plug in the particulars on Berger stability calculator and then go to the JBM Ballistics web site and use theirs. See what it says.
     
  9. cohunt

    cohunt Well-Known Member

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    Id be guessing for sure on speed-- I have speeds for 162 eldx in my 7 mag, but nothing in the 180 class --- If I use generic nosler data that would put me around 2850-2950 for a 180 possibly (if thats a good accuracy node)

    checking the jbm length of the 180 hybrid and using the berger stab calculator it shows its good in a 9.25 twist -- I get close if I go lower in altitude (1.66, but I get up to 1.8 if I increase speed and altitude) --- I just figured that berger suggested twist rate would be close to the 1.5 stability factor, guess their "suggested" twist rates would put you close to a 2.0 factor---OK, might try some--If I can get 2900fps, that would give me 200 ft lbs more energy at 1000 yards, almost 100 fps more velocity, the heavier bullet does drop 2 moa more at 1000 but has almost 1 moa less wind drift than my 162 load

    thanks for the help and info guys, I think I'm gonna give the 168's and 180's a whirl
    guess next time I need to punch numbers first, I just assumed that bergers "suggested twist" would have been closer than what I thiought it was
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  10. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter Well-Known Member

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    I have a 7SAUM and run the 180 hunting VLD's at 2900 fps. Killed 2 deer and 1 antelope. 75-350 yds. Essentially golf ball size exits and animals that don't go far. I suspect that you will like them once you use them.
    Bruce
     
  11. thatguyshm

    thatguyshm Well-Known Member

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    I am planning on the 180gr VLDH being my hunting bullet this year . I have a 9t 26" 7mm RM and use H1000 for 2920. I've taken it to 450yards and get between .5-1 moa without much difficulty and consistently. I shot one into milk jugs at 100 yards, retained 72gr and looked like a good mushroom. I'm at sea level
     
  12. Rick Richard

    Rick Richard Well-Known Member

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    Uploaded this before. This is a 180 grain Hybrid launched out of a 7LRM that was used to take the bull in my avatar at a tad over 650 yards.

    image.jpeg
     
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  13. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    Of the three you have chosen I would pick the 175 elite hunter because it is a hybrid design. This design makes it easier to find a load. All the hybrids I have loaded didn't require any bullet seating depth changes. I usually choose a seating depth that fits and feeds from magazine and work up the powder charges.

    There is an alternative bullet the 168 classic hunter. Have had good results with the 168 classic hunter in five different 7 Rem mags. One friend used this load to kill a cow elk. He said it was the fastest kill he had ever experienced. Another friend shot an antelope at just under 600 yds with another fast kill. All rifles used Retumbo with velocities from 3050 to 3125 fps

    Do some calculations on a ballistics calculator and you will see the higher velocity of a 168 when compared to a 175 or 180 has very similar downrange performance .
    The 168 with its faster velocity will shoot a bit flatter, wind drift and energy are almost identical for the three bullet weights.

    I crunched the 168 classic hunter @ 3100 vs the 175 elite hunter @ 2900 with the hunting conditions for our coues wt in S. Az. 4000 ft 59 degrees etc
    168 @ 500 yd 9.4" drift in 10 mph crosswind 2515 fps/2359 ft/lb
    175 @ 500 yd 8.9" drift in 10 mph crosswind 2409 fps/2255 ft/lb

    Naturally the heavier bullet should penetrate more but the lighter bullet may expand a bit more. To me they are so similar as to now worry about which one.
     
  14. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I have a client on this forum using the 175 elite with great success! He has killed elk beyond 1100 yards, an various other animals at long range. He has shown me groups out to 1300 yards that we're sub 1/2 moa.
    He runs them at 3000'+ in his 7 Sherman Short. His handle is BlackhillsSD. You might send him a pm......rich