barrel lengths per cartridge decisions

[southpa]

I get some of my best speed in my short barrels using the same powders that give best velocity in long barrels.

This
I understand the premise behind larger calibers using slower powders in longer barrels and overbores BUT, It's not like we are using different powders because of a shorter barrel. Take for instance a 300 winnie or a 7RM...I'm going to use H1k and Tumbo in those chamberings no matter what the barrel length is. Like I said before, powder burn rate makes little difference to me with regards to barrel length. I choose a bullet weight that I want and chamber up according to the horsepower I need to get that projectile to desired speeds. I would deff not be running a long pipe in a 28 Noz because I could likely get a 195 to 3050fps in a short barrel. I see no advantage of running a 28"-30" over a 26". Likely this will only go from 3150fps in a 26" to 3200fps in a 28". But we like numbers and if the numbers you want say run a 30" than you do you. There is no right or wrong answer to this, it's just how you feel personally.

 

[comfisherman]

I get some of my best speed in my short barrels using the same powders that give best velocity in long barrels.

This has been my finding as well, powder that works bear long will do best short.

 

[ARlife4me]

This thread is about your preferences as much as cartridges choices (you know for the manbun people ).

 

[Carey Farmer]

I get some of my best speed in my short barrels using the same powders that give best velocity in long barrels.

Agreed.

Given a bore size, case capacity and bullet weight, you'll get the best speed with a powder that is slow enough that you can fill the case up, but fast enough that a case full of powder will hit your pressure limit.

My point wasn't that you should use fast powder in short barrels. It was that there's not much benefit to using long barrels with fast powder.

 

[Mikecr]

we like numbers and if the numbers you want say run a 30" than you do you. There is no right or wrong answer to this, it's just how you feel personally.

Another number I like is accurate barrel life. I personally would not choose more powder to get velocity -over longer barrel.
I would rather go the way of reasonable cartridge at a reasonable barrel length.
And so far I'm sure that long term accuracy trumps short term fireballs.

Also less talked about is that long barrels can be easy to tune. It is easier to spot a best barrel tune, and hold it in a longer dwelling position provided by longer barrels (of the same contour). Shorter barrels are often stiffer, providing less muzzle movement, but less dwell.
With ACCURACY, a longer barrel can be more forgiving, and it can provide better compensation for big timing variances.
If I shot point blank benchrest, I would want a short/stiff barrel and underbore cartridge.
For groundhogs at 600+ I want a fairly long barrel. Like 28" in 260AI. 26" in 6BR. 24" in 223Rem. 21.5" in 6PPC.

 

[Calvin45]

Another number I like is accurate barrel life. I personally would not choose more powder to get velocity -over longer barrel.
I would rather go the way of reasonable cartridge at a reasonable barrel length.
And so far I'm sure that long term accuracy trumps short term fireballs.

Also less talked about is that long barrels can be easy to tune. It is easier to spot a best barrel tune, and hold it in a longer dwelling position provided by longer barrels (of the same contour). Shorter barrels are often stiffer, providing less muzzle movement, but less dwell.
With ACCURACY, a longer barrel can be more forgiving, and it can provide better compensation for big timing variances.
If I shot point blank benchrest, I would want a short/stiff barrel and underbore cartridge.
For groundhogs at 600+ I want a fairly long barrel. Like 28" in 260AI. 26" in 6BR. 24" in 223Rem. 21.5" in 6PPC.

I don't know nearly as much about all this harmonics, tuning, timing and such as you do, or half the members here haha.

This is the first I've heard about longer barrels being easier to tune and more forgiving accuracy wise, though I certainly don't doubt it.

I thought the stiffness of short barrels was supposed to be more forgiving and conducive to accuracy? What exactly do you mean when you talk about "dwelling positions" and "big timing variances"? Explain it as you would to a child, please . I just don't quite know that I understand what you're talking about.

 

[southpa]

Another number I like is accurate barrel life. I personally would not choose more powder to get velocity -over longer barrel.
I would rather go the way of reasonable cartridge at a reasonable barrel length.
And so far I'm sure that long term accuracy trumps short term fireballs.

Also less talked about is that long barrels can be easy to tune. It is easier to spot a best barrel tune, and hold it in a longer dwelling position provided by longer barrels (of the same contour). Shorter barrels are often stiffer, providing less muzzle movement, but less dwell.
With ACCURACY, a longer barrel can be more forgiving, and it can provide better compensation for big timing variances.
If I shot point blank benchrest, I would want a short/stiff barrel and underbore cartridge.
For groundhogs at 600+ I want a fairly long barrel. Like 28" in 260AI. 26" in 6BR. 24" in 223Rem. 21.5" in 6PPC.

A 28 Noz ran hot ain't getting good barrel life no matter what, doesn't matter what length the barrel is. Or how bout a 7-300NMI? Is that getting good barrel life because its ran woth a 32" pipe? As stated before, you do you. That's what's awesome about this country. I'm not quite convinced a 7-300NMI "long term accuracy trumps it's barrel life". Barrels are replaceable and I don't personally build a hot rod to run in the carpool lane. I'm not advocating more powder over barrel life. I'm simply stating that if you want a short barrel than pick the appropriate cartridge to get the bullet you want to perform the way you want it too. Two things can be true at once, I certainly wouldn't neuter myself to a 6.5CM or 22-250 in a short barrel because they use the only powder with a specific burn rate to be the most efficient in that category. If that's what you feel is the way to go than Absolutely stick to it. But if you like bigger bullets and shorter barrels than im here to tell you, whatever gives the best speeds and accuracy in long barrels is more than likely gonna give the best speeds ans accuracy in shorter with the same chambering. My experience shows that

 

[Mikecr]

whatever gives the best speeds and accuracy in long barrels is more than likely gonna give the best speeds ans accuracy in shorter with the same chambering.

If by best speed you mean that you can find a best speed for a shorter barrel, just like a long barrel,, then yes of course that's true.
But if you think 'best' speed equals 'same' speed from a shorter barrel, that isn't happening without more powder or pressure.

 

[southpa]

If by best speed you mean that you can find a best speed for a shorter barrel, just like a long barrel,, then yes of course that's true.
But if you think 'best' speed equals 'same' speed from a shorter barrel, that isn't happening without more powder or pressure.

No I'm pretty sure I never claimed that. It's widely known that shorter barrels net slower speeds. If you read my posts you'll see the reference I made to a 28 schnoz with a 26" vs a 28"-30" thereby showing that I'm not claiming a shorter barrel will net the same speeds. I've maintained that you will need to chamber up according to the bullet weight and performance you expect out of it with short barrels. Inferring again, that shorter barrels net slower speeds. I also explained (like others) that if your barrel is shorter, i have found it will usually shoot the same powder equally as well as longer barrels. Meaning that whatever powder gives you best accuracy and speeds in a longer barrel will more than likely give you the best accuracy and speeds in the same chambering with a shorter barrel. Not that it will give you the SAME speeds or accuracy.

 

[59FLH]

"Both are possible, but more by case design?"

Case design is huge regarding efficiency and velocity. Think venturi, rocket nozzles, etc.

 

[ARlife4me]

A 28 Noz ran hot ain't getting good barrel life no matter what, doesn't matter what length the barrel is. Or how bout a 7-300NMI? Is that getting good barrel life because its ran woth a 32" pipe? As stated before, you do you. That's what's awesome about this country. I'm not quite convinced a 7-300NMI "long term accuracy trumps it's barrel life". Barrels are replaceable and I don't personally build a hot rod to run in the carpool lane. I'm not advocating more powder over barrel life. I'm simply stating that if you want a short barrel than pick the appropriate cartridge to get the bullet you want to perform the way you want it too. Two things can be true at once, I certainly wouldn't neuter myself to a 6.5CM or 22-250 in a short barrel because they use the only powder with a specific burn rate to be the most efficient in that category. If that's what you feel is the way to go than Absolutely stick to it. But if you like bigger bullets and shorter barrels than im here to tell you, whatever gives the best speeds and accuracy in long barrels is more than likely gonna give the best speeds ans accuracy in shorter with the same chambering. My experience shows that

And you don't think cooler burning powders gives more barrel life. There is lines where the "both can be true" will cross and less that both will happen at the same time (given which cartridge is used). What I can state for a fact is about overbore cartridges (264wm to be more precise) is accuracy will be accurate beyond those 800-1,200 round before accuracy is lost to bed. According to Sierra data I'm 1/2gr over max (61.3gr imr4831) with 140Sbt in a pre64 mod70 ('61 to be exact). I've shot over 2,500 rounds (most being that same load) and still accurate enough for hunting (never checked against prs type/style). With the universe helping some snd against others, many things are possible. Winchester won't replace the barrel if it shoots less than 1.25moa (could be 1.5moa, but need to call again). Throat looks horrible as southern Arizona pavement and rough as pavement between El Reno and Yukon OK.

 

[skipglo]

26" nothing less when and were available!

 

[NotLongRange]

It's kind of funny. In the 1970s, it was mostly 22" and 24" barrels. In the 1980s and 1990s, it was 24" and 26" barrels.

Now in the 2000s, people are going back to shorter barrels (18" and 20").

If it is a hunting rifle, you should probably select what barrel balances the rifle best and gives the best performance.

 

[southpa]

And you don't think cooler burning powders gives more barrel life. There is lines where the "both can be true" will cross and less that both will happen at the same time (given which cartridge is used). What I can state for a fact is about overbore cartridges (264wm to be more precise) is accuracy will be accurate beyond those 800-1,200 round before accuracy is lost to bed. According to Sierra data I'm 1/2gr over max (61.3gr imr4831) with 140Sbt in a pre64 mod70 ('61 to be exact). I've shot over 2,500 rounds (most being that same load) and still accurate enough for hunting (never checked against prs type/style). With the universe helping some snd against others, many things are possible. Winchester won't replace the barrel if it shoots less than 1.25moa (could be 1.5moa, but need to call again). Throat looks horrible as southern Arizona pavement and rough as pavement between El Reno and Yukon OK.

Don't think i ever said cooler powder wouldn't give you better barrel life. My post isn't about powder burn rates. Again, I don't care about burn rates with regards to different barrel lengths in the same chamberings. Certain powders shoot well in certain chamberings. I've found they shoot well no matter what length barrel. I don't know where all this other stuff you're talking about fits in hahah.
H1000 shoots really well in 300wm...throated correctly it will push a 200 gn berger over 3000fps in a 26"....it just so happens that h1000 ALSO shoots really well in a properly throated 300wm with a 22" barrel. It won't do it over 3000fps which is why I would CHAMBER UP to maybe a 30noz if I wanted to run that same 200 over 3000fps. My posts said that I chamber and choose barrel length based on what bullet I want to use and the type of performance I want out of it. That's all.