Are We More Temp Sensitive Than Powders?

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

All I read constantly is how temp sensitive certain powders are and stay away! So for a gazillion years we shot knowing that and shot fine for majority of HUNTING of big game. Temp sensitivity I have read, seems to kick in around 85 for most powders which is way above temps I hunt at in the fall. If you know you are going to hunt above temps that can affect the powder you are using, don't use it! If you are reloading, you need to be aware of all powders characteristics whether burn rate or temp range.

So those who are truly concerned over this, I will take ALL of your RL26 off your hands to protect you!! Just in case you have ANY RL26 that is.

My PSA for the day.

I like a powder that works the best in each rifle cal bullet I am using for game we can go from 85 above in summer to -45 below in winter

 

[MT-Shooter]

Outside of the obvious availability issues, why shoot temp sensitive powders in this era? The hodgdon extreme line as well as many recently introduced viht powders seem to be very stable across large swings in temperature.

An issue more prevalent than running poor powders, improperly bedded action/stock interfaces. As a typical fall day can produce a 60° air temp swing from morning to afternoon... peoples rifles tend not to be correctly constructed to allow consistent POI across such a swing.


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Why shoot the older powders? Because sometimes that is all you can get, Also, the vast majority of hunters don't shoot over 300 yds, so temp swings don"t affect accuracy enough at that distance.

 

[TXTrained]

All I read constantly is how temp sensitive certain powders are and stay away! So for a gazillion years we shot knowing that and shot fine for majority of HUNTING of big game. Temp sensitivity I have read, seems to kick in around 85 for most powders which is way above temps I hunt at in the fall. If you know you are going to hunt above temps that can affect the powder you are using, don't use it! If you are reloading, you need to be aware of all powders characteristics whether burn rate or temp range.

So those who are truly concerned over this, I will take ALL of your RL26 off your hands to protect you!! Just in case you have ANY RL26 that is.

My PSA for the day.

Well said..but ya gotta share that big burden..so I will help ya carry that load bytaki g some of that Temp Sensitive RL26 .. lol

 

[crashlanding]

I use imr 4831, way down on the temp sensitivity chart, it's what my 7 mag likes, I'm not going to force feed it something else just because of that, if it ain't broke, don't fix it

 

[Mike Matteson]

Muddy - You make a good point. Obviously if you are shooting at a range in 90 degree heat, temp stability is more important. I think the vast majority of hunting situations will be within the range where temp stability will not be a big concern. I like to eliminate variables that can cause problems, but temp stability is way down the list of priorities for me. Get a small cooler to carry your ammo to the range on hot days.

How many people really pay attention to temp. Some of us hunt weather that well over a hundred, and then hunt in weather that's -20 or even colder. I don't plan on packing a cooler around while hunting in the hill's or mountains, nor a warner in my pocket to keep my ammo warn. Most of the time my ammo that I am going to use is in my rifle is exposed to the weather while hunting in whatever weather. A few hundred yards it really doesn't make a great amount of different, but at extended ranges, what them? The other is I load at max pressures. I go until I have flatten primers in my cases and work around there for my loads and groups ES & ED's. Now if you are going out to 1000yds where are you then. If you want a slow boat to China that's find too. The faster you push that bullet the less problems you have with drop and wind provided they are grouping. There are several powder that don't like temp change. I do see people here that over pushed the loads, and wonder what happening. That's BAD! So are you going to walk around with a temp gauge, and determine the temp, or what ammo I am going to carry that day. Now where does the bullet hit @ 800yds. So I don't think it's that funny. I tried to make one shot one kill, it's doesn't work out that all the time, but generally petty close to that. I just want them aware of possible problems.

 

[BrianID]

The important thing is to understand the limits of what you shoot in your rifle. I would agree that temperature sensitive isn't a big factor for most hunting situations. I used IMR 4350 for one of my hunting loads last fall because I have plenty and knew it wouldn't be a limiting factor for that rifle/bullet combo. The mule deer I shot with that load at about 100 yards didn't seem to notice that I used IMR 4350 instead of my more limited H4350.

Temperature sensitivity is a lower priority for me when I'm loading for a rifle I don't plan on shooting more than 400-500 yards. If I'm shooting 1000 yards with IMR 4350 vs H4350, there will be enough of a difference between zero degrees and 60 degrees to cause me concern. It become much more of a concern when it is really hot around 90 degrees.

Wind is still my biggest challenge for shooting long range and is much more of a limiting factor than temp stability of the powder I'm using.

 

[Nmhunter575]

Out here in southern NM, fall temps can range from low 20s in the morning to 90+ degrees in the afternoons. I'd rather not take the chance.

 

[Citified]

If I can ever find some at a reasonable price, I would like to try
R26 since it is more prevalent in the newer reloading manuals. There does not seem to be consensus among the posters here if it is temp sensitive or not. I have used most of the other powders since I reload for many rifles but I am intrigued by the extra velocity that is possible. My load development would be in warmer weather and we get the 50* temp swings in the summer in Central Oregon daily. What are the informed opinions out there?

 

[mcsh1pat]

In my limited experience, I think the node you're in has a lot to do with how forgiving a powder is to large temperature swings.

 

[codyadams]

Here in Wyoming, about the hottest I ever see during season is 80-85 tops, and that is pretty much exclusively pronghorn......and for them, the rifle likely comes out of the air conditioned truck and takes a shot within a 15 minutes, often times within 5, so it's not too big a deal. About the coldest I have shot a pronghorn is 55ish?

Deer and elk range from teens/20's up to maybe 70-75. I usually use a powder that is not temp sensitive, but a couple of my guns like other powders, and I also test. In the Temps I hunt in, RL26 gave my .15 fps/degree from 15 up to 67 degrees in my .260ai........that is on par with H1000. It often varies from one cartridge to another.

Bottom line, either load well under, or better yet, check the difference in your particular gun, with any powders. Even the insensitive ones can vary with temp, just less. Information is power.

 

[Wrenches]

How did we ever kill anything before we were told of temp insensitive? The IMR line of powders have been around since the 20's,30's and 40's. All those GI's and Airmen were using temp sensitive powders where the temp at 25000 feet was 35-45 below. Sure shot down a lot of axis planes and soldiers. IMR's were used in most all combat arms 30-06 used 4895, 50BMG used 5010 and the twenty MM's used 4831. I just don't buy into this current temp stuff as being any kind of a factor. Most big game is taken at less than 200 yard where a 100 feet per second makes very little difference. I believe it is more selling hype then needed bag big game. JMO.

 

[piute]

I live in California and the temps are all over the place!
Being old school and reloading before many of these new powders were available, IMR's were a go to powder.

Never was looking to hotrod loads, but I'm "thinking?" see now why my 257 Roberts would shoot flatter with IMR4350 in 110* degrees!

 

[pony doctor]

Maybe minute-of-pie-plate hunters popping does under a feeder that have been using the same 5 boxes of Core-Lokts they bought at K-Mart in 1994 can get away with that, but knowing temp stability of a powder to avoid checking zero is not a serious argument.


I agree, if 200 more FPS is just non-negotiable and absolutely critical to a shot, then step up the case to get it instead of pushing something outside it's envelope. Why overpressure the heck out of a 300 WM when there are a half dozen 30 cal options that could hit that speed without pushing the case past the point of sanity.

Seems like the more casual side of this sport is stuck in the "faster is better" magnum mentality. Putting something smaller and slower through the boiler room is always better than missing, no matter how fast the bullet you missed with was going.

Velocity kills nothing! It is nice to have velocity to shoot long range but not necessarily required to max velocity, max the accuracy of the round! I prefer to find smallest group size at the range irrespective of max velocity. If it's mid summer and hot, just keep your ammo on ice in a cooler as in the fall during hunting season most temperatures are not a big problem unless you leave ammo on the bench in full sun.

 

[QuietTexan]

So are you going to walk around with a temp gauge, and determine the temp, or what ammo I am going to carry that day.

Yes, do I carry a Kestrel and figure DA into my drops. It doesn't change what loads I carry because the load is dialed in and proofed by the time I'm hunting with it, but temp will defiantly matter in hunting shots. Both the internal ballistics impact of change in velocity of the bullet, and the effect of DA on external ballistics.

AB calc combines all the parameters, including temp stability rate of the powder.