Allen Mag Shooters Group

[norsepeak]

Just got my 270 Allen, getting through the barell break in and then it's time to tune up the 1K gong! The rifle turned out awsome with a Joel Russo stock.

Kirby, if you could post a pic or two that would be great. Thanks.

 

[strictlyRUM]

What size bushing are you guys rinning in the 270 allen mags. I am going with a 270-300 improved ultra mag and need to get a bushing to form a dummy for the reamer to be made and need the neck diameter. Also will it make enough of a difference if I use the 300 ultra brass from nosler, that I will need different neck dimentions on the reamer?

StrictlyRUM

 

[royinidaho]

ss7mm took his speed goat w/140 Accubond, others are shooting 150 weights. What's a starting load with either of those bullets? I'm assuming 872 or 869 aren't the optimum powder for those lighter weight bullets.

Just for grins I chunked a couple of 140gr Barns XBTs down range ahead of 100gr 869 and got 3407 and 3322. Quite a spread on not much velocity.

Any tho'ts?

 

[41mag]

RUM,

I am using the dies which Kirby had made up for the .270 AM and were purchased with the rifle. I can measure the Rem. cases before and after and let ya know what they are if that helps. I haven't gotten any of the Nosler cases yet so can't give anything that way. I have also found that after the first fireing, that just a skim trim on the outside of the necks really tunes up the cases and loads. I only take enough off to clean up the neck so that I get just over 3/4 or so of a full diameter trim.

Roy,

The only other load I am shooting besides Wildcats, uses the 150 Nolser Solid Base, and is 98grs of 872 and a Fed 215. These are in Rem 7mm RUM cases which are neck sized for fireforming. I haven't tried the 869 with them as the 872 just works so well. I am getting just over 3450fps, and very consistant spreads of around 16 - 18 fps. For a fireform load, that consistantly groups close to 1" @ 500yds, I am not overly concerned with getting much more out of it. It should make a great load to work on a deer or hog with out to around 800 in of itself.

Hopefully I will find out in the next few weeks.

 

[royinidaho]

Learning to dance with my big girl.....

Deer season ended w/no buck being slain. Saw deer, had fun, walked a lot but no meat.

So I took the 270 AM to the range to do the drop chart thing.

I sorted the 169.5s I recently received and assigned the ones on the outter ends of the bell curve to be sighters and drop chart.

Wind was a gusty 11 MPH average worth 35%. Temp was 36*F.

This if the first time shooting prone from bipod and beanie bag rear rest. A test load of 100gr US869 gave me a 1 shot velocity of 3396 on a much warmer day. The shot went exactly where I wanted it to @ 100yds from the bench.

Upon receipt of the box of 169s and sorting, I loaded some cases that for some reason would "just" hold the bullets without being resized. (read lousy neck tension) Being lazy and just wanting to shot her I loaded 14 rounds @ 99gr US 869. I dropped a grain off of the 100grs that Kirby indicated was maximum (but I think it'll handle more if I get a wild streak and want to use up brass)

Kirby told me I'd be really close with a BC of 0.74 so I made a drop chart with a 300yd zero using the single shot with a 169gr prototype 100 yd placement. The chart goes from 300 to 1000 in 25yd increments.

Set the target @ 227 yds then 333 and finally 524. Wierd distances but the range is set up in meters to the berms.

Results:

Distance Expected Actual
227 yds +.1Mils +.12 Mils
333 -.1Mils -.1 Mils
524 -1.3Mils -1.3Mils

Then I just had to shoot at the gong. Unknown distance. Somewhere around 800 Meters. Shot twice, don't think I hit it, at least could hear no impact.

The lava rock ridge behind the gong is just over 1100 yds. To "see where the dust flies" I picked a small off colored piece of rock. Probably a foot square, ball park.

Drop chart said 4.4 Mils for 1k so I figured a 'little over 1100" would be about -5 mils, again ball park. Heck I was just looking for dust.

I centered the top of the post on the light colored rock and let her rip. To my amazement I was able to see impact in the scope (sweet) and that the impact was spot on (sweeter).

7 shots to validate the drop chart out to 524 yds and maybe even to the 1113 mark.

Lessons Learned:
When you're dancin'w/the big girl, hold her lightly.
Don't wear mechanics gloves use the wool mittins that flip back exposing bare fingers. THen you can 'feel' the trigger. The mechanic glove seemed to increase trigger pull weight.

Keep the bipod in the dirt. Its ok to have the shooting matt (double canvas, no padding) under the bipod.

If the bipod is too long, dig some dirt, don't fudge with teh beanie bag i.e., hand on top of or beneath.

After years of shooting 130s and 140s out of a 270 Win on that range, wind seems to affect the 169 no more than 1/4th of teh lighter slower bullets, maybe less. More shooting will tell.

IT seemed like the bullet got to 1113yds in about the time it takes my 338 RUM to get a 250gr to 300. Pretty amazing.

Next I'll finish up the cases and get some consistent neck tension and then play with seating depth if I have to.

 

[41mag]

Re: Learning to dance with my big girl.....

[ QUOTE ]

Lessons Learned:
When you're dancin'w/the big girl, hold her lightly.
Don't wear mechanics gloves use the wool mittins that flip back exposing bare fingers. THen you can 'feel' the trigger. The mechanic glove seemed to increase trigger pull weight.

Keep the bipod in the dirt. Its ok to have the shooting matt (double canvas, no padding) under the bipod.

If the bipod is too long, dig some dirt, don't fudge with teh beanie bag i.e., hand on top of or beneath.

After years of shooting 130s and 140s out of a 270 Win on that range, wind seems to affect the 169 no more than 1/4th of teh lighter slower bullets, maybe less. More shooting will tell.

IT seemed like the bullet got to 1113yds in about the time it takes my 338 RUM to get a 250gr to 300. Pretty amazing.

Next I'll finish up the cases and get some consistent neck tension and then play with seating depth if I have to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your absolutely right about the holding them lightly. I have always shot factory rifles in varied weights and calibers with what seem now to be horrendious triggers. I had developed a subconsous hold on thm that when transferred to the big AM just wasn't working. Just about the time I was starting to get somewhat disappointed in the groups, I decided to just let her do what she wanted and basically free recoil it. I only held it enough to steady the rifle for the shot, and voila, there it was, a great group.

Luck for us I haven't had to try the glove thing yet, not sure that will work too well with my trigger. Just about the time you actually feel it, your through.

Yes they do get downrange rather quickly don't they. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On the cases you mention, were they fireformed first? IF so I found the same thing and that is what got me to trim the outside of the necks on one batch just to see what the difference was. After cleaning them up just enough to get a 2/3 to full cut around the neck, they all measure up the same and the necks are much longer lasting now. This was with Rem. 7mm RUM cases fireformed. The velocities leveled out and the groups stayed more consistant.

I know that there is a LOT more experience here than what I have in this, but I figured that whatever I could do to make them all the same had to help somewhere down the line. It might be a pain and take a bit more time, but in the long run I know that I have done all I can do to the ammo, and the rest is up to me.

 

[royinidaho]

Re: Learning to dance with my big girl.....

[ QUOTE ]
It might be a pain and take a bit more time, but in the long run I know that I have done all I can do to the ammo, and the rest is up to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike/TZ,

I see it this way: "You don't play a Stratavarious(Sp) with a willer stick"

Just tho't that one up. Pretty good for a grey hair'd ol' geezer, huh?

BTW, the first group fired from the rifle was @333yds and went 0.6MOA vertical and 0.14MOA horizonal.

Second group was @ 524yds and went 1.3MOA vertical and 0.25MOA horizonal.

Not bad for a first dance.....

 

[royinidaho]

Re: Learning to dance with my big girl.....

Dance #2

527 yds

Winds from 90* 0 to 25 MPH. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Vertical 0.05MOA. 1.14MOA Horizontal

 

[Buffalobob]

Re: Learning to dance with my big girl.....

Sounds like you are having a good time.

 

[lerch]

Re: Learning to dance with my big girl.....

Went shooting last weekend with BJ and the 270AM. Wind was around 30-35mph but we had to re confirm drops before deer season opens this weekend. We had a gong at 500yds and grapefruits at 675yds shooting directly into the wind. FIrst shot on the 500yd gong was as close to dead center as you can get, on too the fruit. My first shot on the fruit was about 2" off at 2:00, still would have laid out a deer. NExt shot scattered grapefruit rind over a 20ft circle, on too the long stuff. We had another gong set up at 980yds shooting into a direct crosswind. After a sighter shot i lined up on the 12"x12" gong, I was dialing for elevation and using the NP-R2 reticle for the windage. I was holding 6.5moa for wind and 14.25moa for elevation, the trigger broke and even over the howling wind I could here that beautiful ring. ANother shot followed up for back to back hits and I was happy and ready to get out of the wind. THis was closing in on the 850rnds down the pipe mark for my 270AM so I am still pretty **** impressed with the accuracy.

Just thought I would chime in a with a little Allen Mag shooting story.

Take it easy
steve

 

[41mag]

Finialized mine for hunting.....

Well we have been playing with this and that, and as Kirby referred to, myght have some minor addiction going on.

However, with our conditions down here we have had to drop loads and figure on lower BC to get somewhere in the parki of where we want to be. I settled on a load of 92.5gr of 869 for the 169.5, and 94gr of 872 for the 195's. Both are being lit by the Fed. 215M primers and have done great so far. I am totally confident out to 800 yds and figure that even out to 1150, which is the furtherest we have shot so far, I could hit a hog if a good shot were presented.

this past weekend I set up paper at 200yds and dropped the zero on the 169.5's to 1" high there which allows me to use the bars out to just over 1K. I am going to leave her be for now and concentrate on getting something or multiple somethings for the rest of the year. With the groups I have gotten so far, anything that shows out to these ranges is in serious trouble. Look for some reports coming soon.

 

[royinidaho]

Well, I\'ll think I\'ll do what Kirby says from now on......

Got some shooting time on the 270 AM today.

Zero'd @ 300yds then shot @ 500.

The Conditions:

Today's temp. was 36* w/2mph wind from 29* and was shooting towards 0*.

Humidity was 96% w/fog/mist so you couldn't range to 300 yds @ times. Just kind of a mist in the air.

Hg was 25.569 here and 30.009 @ Sea Level.

I don't know what all of this mean but I think bullets should have a lower BC on days like today.

Loads:

169RBBT ahead of 99gr US869 and Fed 215 GM primers. MV was 3275 the other day when I chrono'd this load.

195RBBT ahead of 97gr US869 and Fed 215 GM primers. MV was 3200 the other day when I chrono'd this load.

"The other day" was 4* warmer than today.

My computer gen'd drop charts for both bullets track together to 500yds.

There is no more than 0.2 MILs difference out to 1000yds.

At 100yds both loads for all practical purposes grouped together.

I used the 169s to accurately zero @ 300 and fired 1 195gr load to verify that it grouped with the 169s. It did.

I went to 500 yds with the 195s and grouped well enough to show that it was shooting 0.1 Mils higher than calculated. Group was nearly in the center of the 1st Mil dot instead of -1.1 mils which the bottom edge of that dot.

I had no 169s to shoot at 500 but they were spot on (-1.1 Mils low) at that distance the other day.

If I'm shooting accurately enough the 195 may be 0.1 Mil (~2") flatter than the 169 @ 500. One more drop chart check w/the 195s @ 600 and 1089 (that's where the gong is) and I'll have Rock ready to throw.......lead.

My problem is I have the same level of confidence with "Pink" (338 RUM) as I do with "The Rock" (270 AM)

Pink shoots a bit of a rainbow with the 300 SMKs @ 27XX but she's spot on. The AM is steadier on the bipod and most probably a bit better to shoot out towards 1K (10lbs vs 11.8 lbs). Wo is me, decisions, decisions, decisions. Guess I'll have to make more rules. W/a straight 16X on the AM and a 4.5-14 on the 338 I guess it depends on if I walk & stalk or set up a hide.

RE: Listening to Kirby. He said not to turn the necks. Hell, even I knew that didn't sound right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Yeh, right /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If I ever turn 'em again I'll just shine them up enough to satisfy my "tinkeritus). Neck tension seems to be important. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I won't neck turn the next batch but it may be awhile before I wear these out as the above listed loads show no no noticeable primer pocket expansion or extraction pressure. After tossing the cases w/too little neck tension I have 15 out of the original 20.

I'll work out ALL the bugs w/these cases before I prep the other 100 or so.

 

[hoghound]

Re: Well, I\'ll think I\'ll do what Kirby says from now on......

This past Friday was so beautiful I just had to leave the big city early to go north to the farm.

Set the 270AM up on the table to verify load drop at 1150yds to where we set a feeder up. My load dope was right on as I cut a 6.5" group with the 169's. The wind was horific as the strike of the first 2 rounds were 48" to the right. Came back to the bench and held 48" to the left and the strikes were 24". The problem is so many different up draft currents and warm and cold pockets with swirling winds from 3-8 from bench to mark. The wind is going to be a real learning curve and challenge. But that's what makes this sport fun,

Tim

 

[royinidaho]

Re: Well, I\'ll think I\'ll do what Kirby says from now on......

Hmmmm, (48/11.50)/1.047=3.9865 MOA or 16 clicks into the wind.


What if you had a target area some distance to one side or the other of the feeder that would reveal bullet impact for a sighter shot. At very long range around here it is possible at times to shoot a sighter and the game isn't spooked at all. Then all ya gotta do is wait for those conditions to come back. Yeah, right /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif They hardly ever do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif