A-Tips, terminal performance on big game

[landonm]

In general, Target or Match bullets usually have a heavier jacket than hunting bullets. Hunting bullets being thinner in the front end to promote expansion. Target bullets are made with heavier jackets up front so that they will not "blow up" in flight giving a competitor a miss during the match. With today's modern bullets, blow ups in flight are so rare as to be non existent. The folks from Berger have told me that their Target bullets are heavier jacketed but that all bullets are made to provide match grade accuracy. Hope this helps some.

The "heavier jackets on match bullets" is a misnomer, or at least not always true. I can't speak specifically to the Berger bullets, but the Hornady bullets are exactly the opposite... thinner jackets on the match lines and heavier jackets on the "hunting" bullets. We've hunted with match bullets for years. They tend to be softer and expand more quickly. Can pose problems with explosive expansion and less penetration at close ranges (but still usually results in an efficient, albeit messy kill), but also means more reliable expansion at extended range. A worthy trade-off for me, anyway.

My understanding with the A-TIP bullets is they're essentially the same jacket as on the ELD Match bullets. My New mexico antelope was taken at 690 yards last year with the 135 A-TIP.

 

[jpndave]

I would also be interested in any additional real results from the A-Tip, probably the 135gr 6.5mm and the 230gr 308. My understanding is concern over too thick a jacket and too hard core which would be the opposite of a blow up. The antelope shot with a 135 looked like promising results caliber in, larger exit. The ELD-M has proven a pretty good round on game leaning towards too expansive. These might be great??? Maybe not?

 

[bigbull]

Not sure guys................................ In my experience target bullets have much thinner jackets.
If the point one is trying to make is that the target bullets have thicker nose meplats to aid in controlling "Blow Ups"
maybe this is so but they certainly do not have anything that resembles a controlled expanding hunting bullets tapered jacket, in fact maybe the taper at the nose of a tapered jacket is thinner than a match bullet but that is where the thicker jacket argument ends. The Hunting Bergers that I have sectioned only show the thinnest of jackets that represent common match bullet bullet design. In my opinion their only saving grace is that they are "so long for weight" that this helps them get through a lot of tissue before they come apart, unless they hit good bone which then shows their true colors, they have no structural integrity and come apart or if the impact velocity is too high same same.
Sorry but they seem to be closer to a match bullet than any "regular" hunting bullet that I know about.
I would much prefer any controlled expansion or bonded bullet than the thin jacketed "Berger VLD Type" bullets even if they do not shoot as flat. JMHO
BB

 

[Mc Fraser]

Like to hear more experiences and data collected from the A-tips on big game. I'd love to use them but can't seem to find much data on them in terms of terminal performance on game. What is the slowest recommended velocity for impact if indeed they are effective on game?

The 156 EOL is another option that will work I know, but I'm looking to eke out the maximum effective range with the 6.5 PRC. 153 A-tips launched anywhere close to 3,000 fps will go a long ways for sure, but I don't want to develop a load that I can't use for anything from woodchucks to elk... (Have been using the 147 ELD-M's)

I'm curious why eldm and not eldx?

 

[jpndave]

The information posted on the Berger bullets is correct. Earlier "target" bullets were proven to work hunting so they renamed them "hunting" and thickened up the jackets on the "target" bullets that were redesigned.

A 6.5 I have been working with really likes both the Berger OTM 130gr Hybrid (which according to Berger is the same construction as the "hunting" bullets and good to use that way) and the 130 & 140 ELD-M. It will not group either ABLR at all which is what I was hoping to use. I haven't tried the A-Tip yet but suspect it would be at least as good as the ELD-M. I just can't get on board with the Berger, I have seen results of it with both incredibly effective kills and also results of complete pencil through. ELD-M seems pretty much as @landonm posted #29.

 

[schmi015]

135 atip, 6.5saum at 330 yards. Copper creek loaded. Entrance was on left side of the deer, looked like some bits exited right neck. Bullet passed through the leg/armpit part opened rapidly no heart to be found. Amazing terminal performance. Shot placement is everything.

 

[Northkill]

I'm curious why eldm and not eldx?

Hey McFraser, reason being it shoots them the best. There's been a lot of data and experiences using the ELD-M on game. Are there better bullets for the job? I won't argue that. But when your rifle shoots something 1/4 MOA, that's hard to argue when you're doing long-range varmit shots. 3 for 3 on woodchucks on Saturday. It's a wonderful way to spend an evening with my 3 boys...and a good way to learn and collect data for when the stakes are higher in the fall.

Our experience with the PRC and Creedmoor is that the ELD-M's do just as well or even better than the ELD-X. I like to shoot the same load for everything if I can...keeps life simpler. I think there's room for opinions on either side of which bullets are better. My Sako 25/06 was deadly with the Nosler Partitions... Lets keep doing what we love, and cut each other some slack while we do it. And you know, a little kicking each other around on here will make us all better, if we are willing to learn from other's honest experiences, right? Opinions come a little cheaper than experience, but I don't mind hearing some of them too.

 

[Mc Fraser]

Hey McFraser, reason being it shoots them the best. There's been a lot of data and experiences using the ELD-M on game. Are there better bullets for the job? I won't argue that. But when your rifle shoots something 1/4 MOA, that's hard to argue when you're doing long-range varmit shots. 3 for 3 on woodchucks on Saturday. It's a wonderful way to spend an evening with my 3 boys...and a good way to learn and collect data for when the stakes are higher in the fall.

Our experience with the PRC and Creedmoor is that the ELD-M's do just as well or even better than the ELD-X. I like to shoot the same load for everything if I can...keeps life simpler. I think there's room for opinions on either side of which bullets are better. My Sako 25/06 was deadly with the Nosler Partitions... Lets keep doing what we love, and cut each other some slack while we do it. And you know, a little kicking each other around on here will make us all better, if we are willing to learn from other's honest experiences, right? Opinions come a little cheaper than experience, but I don't mind hearing some of them too.

I apologize if I offended you, I never meant it like that. I was just curious

 

[bigbull]

Opinions based on experience count too. In this day and age the internet makes us all into experts.
At the end of the day this is all good and a great place to exchange information.
BB

 

[Northkill]

I apologize if I offended you, I never meant it like that. I was just curious

No offense at all, seriously. Fine with the question. Just wasn't sure what angle you were coming from so I probably got more in depth than necessary. My comments toward the end were for some of the others that were maybe getting a little warm

 

[Tikkashooter]

I heard that hornady used a harder allow lead for the core of the Atips so they don't expand as reliably as an eld-m

 

[schmi015]

I heard that hornady used a harder allow lead for the core of the Atips so they don't expand as reliably as an eld-m

The a tip is aluminum.

 

[Northkill]

I would also be interested in any additional real results from the A-Tip, probably the 135gr 6.5mm and the 230gr 308. My understanding is concern over too thick a jacket and too hard core which would be the opposite of a blow up. The antelope shot with a 135 looked like promising results caliber in, larger exit. The ELD-M has proven a pretty good round on game leaning towards too expansive. These might be great??? Maybe not?

bigbulls #13 post might help you out some. Sounds like we'll be hearing more on these after this coming season...

 

[Northkill]

The a tip is aluminum.

Yes sir, it's got an aluminum tip...with a lead core. Some are thinking it's got a harder lead alloy for the core than is used in the ELD-M...