A deer for the books

[ChanceInTexas]

Hey Fordy,
I can relate some real-world experience on Cor-Lokts. I'm new around here so for some background...I've been guiding deer hunters (and quite a few exotics) here in Texas for maybe 30 years. I've seen literally thousands of deer killed. In my early guiding days, I couldn't stand Cor-Lokts. It seemed like back then, most of the time the core and jacket would separate. I hated them. Caliber didn't matter. I just flat out hated them. Then for some reason, I started shooting the Remington 55gr PSP in my 22-250 for does and culls. We have always called them Cor-Lokts, but it says PSP on the box. Anyway, they shot VERY well in that 22-250. With that little gun I wasn't concerned with getting an exit and didn't care if the bullet came apart, so I was ok with the Remingtons. But over the years I noticed that little bullet always stayed together. Hmmm...maybe something changed? So I started shooting the 150gr Cor-Lokts in my 308 (suppressed) for does and culls. They worked awesome. NONE came apart. I'm thinking somewhere over the years they had to have changed the construction on them. Had to. I've since guided many hunters shooting Cor-Lokts in many calibers and they have become one of my all-time favorite bullets. For what it's worth, with that 22-250 and 308 with those bullets, I've killed well over 1,000 deer and for the life of me I can't think of even one bullet failure.

For your buddy with that stag, I see nothing that says bullet failure or bad performance. It was shot placement and angle. Nothing more, nothing less. Just 1" different placement and that thing would likely have died in short order. The fact that the bullet didn't exit has no bearing on whether that stag was going to live or die.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Hey Fordy,
I can relate some real-world experience on Cor-Lokts. I'm new around here so for some background...I've been guiding deer hunters (and quite a few exotics) here in Texas for maybe 30 years. I've seen literally thousands of deer killed. In my early guiding days, I couldn't stand Cor-Lokts. It seemed like back then, most of the time the core and jacket would separate. I hated them. Caliber didn't matter. I just flat out hated them. Then for some reason, I started shooting the Remington 55gr PSP in my 22-250 for does and culls. We have always called them Cor-Lokts, but it says PSP on the box. Anyway, they shot VERY well in that 22-250. With that little gun I wasn't concerned with getting an exit and didn't care if the bullet came apart, so I was ok with the Remingtons. But over the years I noticed that little bullet always stayed together. Hmmm...maybe something changed? So I started shooting the 150gr Cor-Lokts in my 308 (suppressed) for does and culls. They worked awesome. NONE came apart. I'm thinking somewhere over the years they had to have changed the construction on them. Had to. I've since guided many hunters shooting Cor-Lokts in many calibers and they have become one of my all-time favorite bullets. For what it's worth, with that 22-250 and 308 with those bullets, I've killed well over 1,000 deer and for the life of me I can't think of even one bullet failure.

For your buddy with that stag, I see nothing that says bullet failure or bad performance. It was shot placement and angle. Nothing more, nothing less. Just 1" different placement and that thing would likely have died in short order. The fact that the bullet didn't exit has no bearing on whether that stag was going to live or die.

I beg to differ. Not only does an exit have bearing, it would have resulted in a faster death.

 

[QSYB1]

I beg to differ. Not only does an exit have bearing, it would have resulted in a faster death.

Given that the animal didn't die, I don't see how you can be so firm on that. If you look at the cavity picture, the original exit was nearly at the spine, it was so high on the ribs. There was nothing up there to hit and no blood would have been flowing from that hole. This was 100% a placement issue.

 

[Jon Bischof]

I agree that placement could have been lower, but it is still true that an exit would result in quicker blood loss and a dead stag.

 

[ChanceInTexas]

I agree that placement could have been lower, but it is still true that an exit would result in quicker blood loss and a dead stag.

In most cases I would agree with you in regards to the exit resulting in more blood loss. However, in this case it was a non-lethal shot due to placement and angle (evidence with the animal that lived for 6 months after the shot). The exit would have been too high for blood loss anyway. You do not need blood loss for a quick kill, or even for A kill. I have shot a LOT of animals that were DRT, with not-so-much as a drop of blood present.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Ok, blood loss would be slower with a high shot but still a dead stag. Very tough Stag for sure!

 

[Bob Wright]

Gday
Man I can see why this young fella is camera shy
We need to give him a little slack as he's just learning the art of putting it all together & man I wish he had of taken more photos & delved a little deeper in those lungs but such is life & we have what we have

I actually think when you look @ the entry it's a bit lower than some think ( myself included @ first ) as you can see ea side of on leg just & direction of hair gives me that impression also look @ lung makeup looks like a lot of scar tissue to me but I will confirm as soon as I get hold of him but he just started back @ work & maybe untouchable for 6 weeks he works 6 on 6 off& phone reception sucks sometimes where he works

Moving on
muddy oh I'd love to say what I really think

This is a better approach I think
@elkfire I'd love to see a corelox act like a frangible so please show actual evidence

To be fair I'll let you know a couple of my cards I've taken the 150 gr in question to impacts of just shy of 3500impact & also on a few big critters some way bigger than this stag easily 3 times along with a lot of goats & never have I seen a corelox act like a frangible but if you say loosing it's core that's a frangible well we have different opinions on what a frangible does so all cool
Looking forward to your reply with pictures hopefully as they are always the best fact finders imo

The guys on here who have used them a little or lot you can tell they have watched the wounds or preformance @ a minimum as from their description & I can't quote everyone you know who you are but the best was Bob as he has put up what these bullets on the whole do & don't do well if I'm interpreting correctly
Although they penertrate a fair bit it's when we delve a little deeper into that wound channel you see why they were slow killers now & then ( it's here I look @ & marvel @ the ability of a few brands of today to take the once common wound channel & push it to a new level )
I found the 150 fairly good on critters to around 180/200 lbs on the whole across multiple impacts & resistance but today we are blessed to have far better pills available

On pill selection no frangible can be relied upon to give consistent results on this impact once again look @ entry side as you need to put these through less resistance to get consistent results

Energy dump pills are just that in my opinion a dump & yes they will work most of the time but your number will get called out in that bingo raffle eventuality if not you your either a great shot , lucky or haven't shot enough critters yet especially under less than ideal circumstances

A exit on a broadside or slight broadside is the most consistent pill across all the angles we will encounter in hunting as a whole as hunters well from my observations but I'll say if you can't dispute when a frangible works well it's very good it's the other side that's gives us that P's saying on preformance

Here's a thought for you lot to ponder on this scenario on needing a heavy to give better results here yes I agree on the whole but I'll also say don't dismiss a lighter pill to do a even better job than your heavy

I'm off testing pills today / tomorrow & it's for all you longrange low impact freaks
So catch you lot in a couple days
Cheers

(Hopefully, you were mentioning my comment.)
Yes, you did interpret correctly. This pronghorn at 365 yards, Texas heart shot, there was little damage thru the guts, and the pass thru in the heart looked like a drilled hole. Very small permanent wound thru the entire animal. I don't think any bone got touched except for the sternum on exit, maybe. Pass thru shot. I dont recall a blood trail. Lungs barely got touched. Maybe 30 yards travel after impact. If I remember correctly the box muzzle velocity claim was ~2700, 30-06, 165 grain out of a short barrel Remington 742 semi auto. Certainly the opposite of a long range rifle, lol.
It was not a messy field dressing like most gut shots are.
I hate those jobs. Yeesh!

 

[VLD Pilot]

Gday
Here's one for the ages
My mate shot this deer but he's to camera shy to share the information but I just can't pass up the opportunity to share so we all can see & learn


So
Took 2 shots only problem the shots were 6 months apart to the day
First shot 150 gr corelox out of a 300wsm @ around 3 k impact hit shoulder smashing it & underhide on the far shoulder yep the stag was a nice broadside & pill preformed text book held together mushroomed & penertrated well for corelox under pretty high resistance
Angle of shot was uphill
Retained weight 97.1 gr
Stags weight around 550 lbs
The blood trail was omg yep very impressive & went for some considerable distance then just stopped 1.14 on video of fairly steady walkingView attachment 425124 & stag was unrecovered after considerable time trying to find
Then 3rd jan rolled around & he's out again & smacked the same deer but secured him this time & although a cool part of that to me it's the incredible survival of this deer from the shot 6 months earlier
Here's the entry side
View attachment 425108
Here's the far side bulging pill under skin & pill cut out
View attachment 425119View attachment 425120
Here's where the pill exited the chest cavity
View attachment 425116
Here's the lungs & some of the damage from both new & old wounds
View attachment 425112

Thoughts ?
So what does this great bit of information tell us & what can we do to improve moving forward

Cheers

Impact with a 150 core lokt being 3000 fps is dope. Bullet did what it was suppose to do. Deadly mushroom for sure. 550lb elk get killed all the time with .6mm/6.5mm bullets at less velocity and with less weight. What Butterbean said. Toughness and will to live is incredible. It is what it is.

 

[59FLH]

So what does this great bit of information tell us & what can we do to improve moving forward

Aim low on an up hill shot.

 

[ChanceInTexas]

Ok, blood loss would be slower with a high shot but still a dead stag. Very tough Stag for sure!

I'm sorry but will respectfully disagree. Just because there is an exit in no way guarantees a kill, which is basically what you are saying. A non-lethal hit is just that, non-lethal. With your theory, a deer shot through the backstraps will die if there is an exit, but might not die if there is no exit. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[ChanceInTexas]

So what does this great bit of information tell us & what can we do to improve moving forward

Aim low on an up hill shot.

Yessir. This I can agree with.

 

[Jon Bischof]

I'm sorry but will respectfully disagree. Just because there is an exit in no way guarantees a kill, which is basically what you are saying. A non-lethal hit is just that, non-lethal. With your theory, a deer shot through the backstraps will die if there is an exit, but might not die if there is no exit. It just doesn't make sense.

Nice of you to respectfully debate. Trying to understand your point, are you thinking that a high exit hole will not have very much blood loss?
Anything that adds to blood loss is a big plus for faster stoppage.

 

[ChanceInTexas]

Nice of you to respectfully debate. Trying to understand your point, are you thinking that a high exit hole will not have very much blood loss?
Anything that adds to blood loss is a big plus for faster stoppage.

That's pretty typical of a high shot. But my point is an exit with this guy's shot placement would have made zero difference on whether or not the animal died. Heck, it ALMOST did exit, just got hung up under the skin. Non-lethal shot placement is just that. With non-lethal placement, it just doesn't matter if there is an exit or not. Extreme example: A deer is standing broadside and is shot in the tail. If the bullet doesn't exit, he lives. If the bullet does exit, your argument is that he will die. In your mind it's the same story with this guy's stag. And I contend, it just ain't so.

 

[BillLarson]

Nice of you to respectfully debate. Trying to understand your point, are you thinking that a high exit hole will not have very much blood loss?
Anything that adds to blood loss is a big plus for faster stoppage.

One thing about a pass thru shot...... whether arrow or bullet.....
a pass thru means the animal did not absorb all energy intended....
my biggest buck at 40 yds with a 30-06 180 gr.corlokt bullet.....
neither bullet passed thru..... they were each found on the opposite side of chest just under the hide.
He was ready to leap at the first shot and I hit him again in the chest....partial step... dead.....
Both chest shots..... not spine or brain shots.He absorbed all the energy from 2 bullets...