7mmRM and 30-06

[JPHunter]

G'day all,

I've gone through a few rifles over the past couple of years and still haven't found one I love and that's practical.

Sold my 300wm sako Bavarian because of weight, wood and bluing being inconvenient for mountain hunting. Bought a sauer 202 in 300wm and didn't love it. Now have a sako 75 in 7mmRM and it's just too heavy.

I'd love a hs precision or Christensen arms type rifle but they're well into the $4000s here in Aus.

So realistically looking at a tikka t3x or sako A7 and banking the extra money I make to upgrade my optics either scope or binos.

The last few months though I've really been considering jumping off the magnum wagon after spending my whole adult life on it and going back to a 30-06.

I'm not a long range hunter but with a good setup I feel ethically sound in taking shots at game to around 650 yards. My question is, with development of good handloads what are going to be the ballistic differences out to that range and is it really enough to sway to one over the other?

Also Australia being the land of great rip offs, bear in mind of I feel like shooting a few roos with factory, 7mmRM fedral powershoks will set you back $60-70.

Im really not set one way or the other, need a nudge with some knowledge to convince me where to go.

Happy for mountain rifle suggestions too, just add between 50-100% to the cost in the states and you'll be ball park with what it costs us.

Thanks guys,

 

[gohring3006]

At the range you are speaking of, and the fact you reload, just choose one. Either will work.
Good luck...

 

[MudRunner2005]

Both are great, well-respected, and have very long and solid track-records. They're both considered staple hunting calibers here in the US. There's probably more .30-06 rifles out there than anything else. If I had to guess the top 5 hunting cartridges here in the US (in no particular order) I would say .30-06 Sprg, .270 Win, 7mmRM, .300WM, and .308 Win.

My personal suggestion is the 7mmRM is the best all-around cartridge ever. I have spent nearly half my life hunting with the 7mmRM, as well as many other calibers/cartridges mixed in there throughout the years, and the 7mmRM is still the top-dog when you figure-in all the important factors. But I also have a custom .30-06 Ackley Improved and it has grown on me a lot over the last few years. While I still put the 7mmRM in 1st place, the .30-06 AI is definitely in my top 5. I have quite a number of other calibers, but they are not relevant to your question, so I figured I'd just try to stick to the topic at-hand.

 

[HARPERC]

..........Sold my 300wm sako Bavarian because of weight, wood and bluing being inconvenient for mountain hunting. Bought a sauer 202 in 300wm and didn't love it. Now have a sako 75 in 7mmRM and it's just too heavy......

You're on the right track here, find a rifle you like, priced the way you want it, and then look to see if it's 7mmRM, or 30-06.

As for the logistics of what ammo is common where you're at, I have no idea which is cheaper to feed.

Preferences? I prefer a 30-06.

 

[J E Custom]

If you reload, and like the 30/06 style case I would consider the 280 or the 280 AI also.

The 280 AI will shoot the 280 Remington and fire form at the same time with hunting accuracy.
It can also match the 7mm RM with all but the heaviest bullets.

It is a very versatile cartridge and there are lots of components (Brass, bullets, Dies ETC)available
for ether. It is also very good/easy on brass.

Not trying to change your mind, just giving you an alternative to think about for your needs/wants
that could satisfy you.

J E CUSTOM

 

[engineer40]

What kind of rifle weight are you looking at achieve? Seems that in a long action you can get as light as 6.75lbs for a reasonable cost. To get down to 5lbs, it'll triple the price of the rifle.

I've had my eye on a Kimber Mountain Ascent for a while now. Just haven't had a solid reason to buy one. Might be worth checking out though. They are super lightweight.

Hope this helps!

 

[JPHunter]

Thanks guys, I felt like I already knew the answer I just needed some confirmation from people more knowledgeable than I, so i appreciate it. For what I want it's almost a six of one type thing between them.

As for gun, i don't want to go too light. I personally dislike kimbers, the main reason being they seem to be really inconsistent at least in Aus and NZ. It's a flip of a coin as to whether you get a tack driver or one that can't shoot, my brother had the latter. 90% of the hunting we do in Australia is stalking or what you guys call still hunting. For that you need a gun that balances offhand well. I missed an easy 100m offhand shot on a really good red stag with my brothers Montana purely because it was so light I couldn't keep it steady.

I want something around the 2.8-3kg mark. Maybe around the 6.5-7.0 lb mark i guess you'd say.

I'd love a sako finnlight but don't have near on $3k to spend. I've never handled a weatherby of any kind but have heard decent things about the back country 2.
Really am open to suggestions though.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Thanks guys, I felt like I already knew the answer I just needed some confirmation from people more knowledgeable than I, so i appreciate it. For what I want it's almost a six of one type thing between them.

As for gun, i don't want to go too light. I personally dislike kimbers, the main reason being they seem to be really inconsistent at least in Aus and NZ. It's a flip of a coin as to whether you get a tack driver or one that can't shoot, my brother had the latter. 90% of the hunting we do in Australia is stalking or what you guys call still hunting. For that you need a gun that balances offhand well. I missed an easy 100m offhand shot on a really good red stag with my brothers Montana purely because it was so light I couldn't keep it steady.

I want something around the 2.8-3kg mark. Maybe around the 6.5-7.0 lb mark i guess you'd say.

I'd love a sako finnlight but don't have near on $3k to spend. I've never handled a weatherby of any kind but have heard decent things about the back country 2.
Really am open to suggestions though.

Based on personal experience, I cannot recommend a Weatherby in good conscience... But if you can find a Browning A-Bolt II Composite Stalker in 7mmRM with the BOSS system, I think you will be happy. I have had 2 of them, and still have 1 of them (1st one got stolen). If you handload, they are tack-drivers from the factory, and with the BOSS system, the recoil for the 7mmRM is right around the same as a .243 Win or a 7mm-08 Rem (if you've ever shot one of those?). They're very light and right around the weight you are looking for. And with the BOSS muzzlebrake you can still have your 7mmRM cartridge and very little recoil.

Here in the southeast US we also call it "stalk hunting". I've heard folks from up north call it "still hunting" before, but you won't hear it much down here.

Also, I've always wanted to get a trophy-sized Red Stag, and possibly a Roo. Those things are HUGE! And it would look good mounted on my wall. I've also heard they're good eating, too.

 

[JPHunter]

Based on personal experience, I cannot recommend a Weatherby in good conscience... But if you can find a Browning A-Bolt II Composite Stalker in 7mmRM with the BOSS system, I think you will be happy. I have had 2 of them, and still have 1 of them (1st one got stolen). If you handload, they are tack-drivers from the factory, and with the BOSS system, the recoil for the 7mmRM is right around the same as a .243 Win or a 7mm-08 Rem (if you've ever shot one of those?). They're very light and right around the weight you are looking for. And with the BOSS muzzlebrake you can still have your 7mmRM cartridge and very little recoil.

Here in the southeast US we also call it "stalk hunting". I've heard folks from up north call it "still hunting" before, but you won't hear it much down here.

Also, I've always wanted to get a trophy-sized Red Stag, and possibly a Roo. Those things are HUGE! And it would look good mounted on my wall. I've also heard they're good eating, too.

Thanks for the advice mate!

Personally I don't understand the term "still hunting", seeing as the act of still hunting requires you to not be still!?

Trophy size red stags is a pretty loose term here. The things from nz you see with points and mass everywhere are the equivalent to 350" whitetail. They grow up in 10 acre paddocks and get released to bigger HF parks for hunting. Wild trophy red stags are generally 33-36" long exceptional ones can hit 40". 12 to 14 points is considered trophy with anything more being exceptional.

This is my muzzleloader red stag from this year, he's an old 6x6 and classes as a free range trophy. As for roos, they're protected unless you're off the land and have permits which I'm lucky to have.

If you're ever interested in a hunt swap I'm keen to get over to the states after a nice buck myself one day. Could try for a stag here and if you couldn't manage at least 10-20 roos in two or three days I'd call it a rough trip! They aren't too bad on the table either but are quite often a bit wormy so I don't eat them much.

 

[JOHNNIE WALKER]

Interesting comment you made there about "trophy stag". I was out in Colorado one year hiking back from Dark Canyon and meet a couple from New Zealand, about 15 years ago. They told me about how a stag hunt actually works, and how ranchers enjoyed the money from rich Americans and Europeans. Back then I didn't know what to think of what they said. You reminded me of that.
Personally, I'm a fan of a shorter barreled, fast handling, ballenced rifle, that's capable of decent range, but yet handy in the brush. The 30/06 fits the bill for me. 110-180 gr bullets, and a great track record for taking game. The 7mm really shines with lighter bullets, but the 30/06 really seems to hold ground with 168-180 gr bullets. I've killed everything from crows to elk with my 30/06. Even though I got away from it for a while, I've recently got it back out to mess with. But having said all that, I also appreciate a good deal, so if I found a nice rifle that felt good, and the price was right, I wouldn't turn it away. But I do prefer the .30 cal for bigger game. A big heavy bullet used on big heavy game, just seems to be a good all around idea.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Thanks for the advice mate!

Personally I don't understand the term "still hunting", seeing as the act of still hunting requires you to not be still!?

Trophy size red stags is a pretty loose term here. The things from nz you see with points and mass everywhere are the equivalent to 350" whitetail. They grow up in 10 acre paddocks and get released to bigger HF parks for hunting. Wild trophy red stags are generally 33-36" long exceptional ones can hit 40". 12 to 14 points is considered trophy with anything more being exceptional.

This is my muzzleloader red stag from this year, he's an old 6x6 and classes as a free range trophy. As for roos, they're protected unless you're off the land and have permits which I'm lucky to have.

If you're ever interested in a hunt swap I'm keen to get over to the states after a nice buck myself one day. Could try for a stag here and if you couldn't manage at least 10-20 roos in two or three days I'd call it a rough trip! They aren't too bad on the table either but are quite often a bit wormy so I don't eat them much.

That's a nice stag! Something like that would look great on my wall. Around here you've got to have some premo land or really good luck to end up with a wall-hanger. I've spent my whole life hunting and the biggest thing I've killed was an 8pt buck that wasn't even worth the money to mount (IMO). The folks who have multiples were either lucky or had some really nice family land they've been managing for several generations.

If I had some land of my own, I would be more than happy to swap a hunt, but unfortunately right now, I do not....But I am working on that. Someday...

The stags I see on the internet are the ones I always think of when I think of Red Stags. Like this one I found on google... I always thought this was a normal size for the larger ones. I never realized this was considered abnormally large. But that is good info to know.

Those Browning A-Bolt II rifles have been discontinued here in the states for a couple years, so I'm not sure if you can find a new one where you're at...Every now and then I come across one here. Also, don't be fooled if you come across an A-Bolt III...They are NOT the same quality as the A-Bolt II rifle, they just try to use the same name to insinuate quality. I have heard good things about the X-Bolt, but I don't care for them.

 

[JPHunter]

Interesting comment you made there about "trophy stag". I was out in Colorado one year hiking back from Dark Canyon and meet a couple from New Zealand, about 15 years ago. They told me about how a stag hunt actually works, and how ranchers enjoyed the money from rich Americans and Europeans. Back then I didn't know what to think of what they said. You reminded me of that.
Personally, I'm a fan of a shorter barreled, fast handling, ballenced rifle, that's capable of decent range, but yet handy in the brush. The 30/06 fits the bill for me. 110-180 gr bullets, and a great track record for taking game. The 7mm really shines with lighter bullets, but the 30/06 really seems to hold ground with 168-180 gr bullets. I've killed everything from crows to elk with my 30/06. Even though I got away from it for a while, I've recently got it back out to mess with. But having said all that, I also appreciate a good deal, so if I found a nice rifle that felt good, and the price was right, I wouldn't turn it away. But I do prefer the .30 cal for bigger game. A big heavy bullet used on big heavy game, just seems to be a good all around idea.

I didn't want to offend anyone but that's pretty much the sum og it. It's just a market set up for mostly rich Americans. Last time i was diy tahr hunting we visited one of the farms that breed them. There was a 500" plus stag that the farmer had just sold to an outfitter for Somewhere around $20k. It was being picked up that day and released for an American coming in the next day. Who knows what the outfitter charged him and he'd have no idea 48 hours ago I was watching the stag in a pen.

I agree with your views on rifles too, in Australia we're shocking for wanting bigger and bigger calibres, i believe it's to justify poor shooting. I've actually spoke to a bloke that said he was undergunned hunting buffalo up north with a 300rum, "took three in the head as finishers to kill him". Never mind tens of thousands have been shot with 30-06 and 308!
I prefer heavy bullets with a better bc as well.

 

[JPHunter]

That's a nice stag! Something like that would look great on my wall. Around here you've got to have some premo land or really good luck to end up with a wall-hanger. I've spent my whole life hunting and the biggest thing I've killed was an 8pt buck that wasn't even worth the money to mount (IMO). The folks who have multiples were either lucky or had some really nice family land they've been managing for several generations.

If I had some land of my own, I would be more than happy to swap a hunt, but unfortunately right now, I do not....But I am working on that. Someday...

The stags I see on the internet are the ones I always think of when I think of Red Stags. Like this one I found on google... I always thought this was a normal size for the larger ones. I never realized this was considered abnormally large. But that is good info to know.

Those Browning A-Bolt II rifles have been discontinued here in the states for a couple years, so I'm not sure if you can find a new one where you're at...Every now and then I come across one here. Also, don't be fooled if you come across an A-Bolt III...They are NOT the same quality as the A-Bolt II rifle, they just try to use the same name to insinuate quality. I have heard good things about the X-Bolt, but I don't care for them.

That's a prime example of a high fenced red stag, they don't get close to that in the wild. I reckon any hunt where all the "world records" are held by people that don't live in the country it should ring alarm bells that something is amiss.

If you're ever down here I'd be still happy to take you chasing roos at least, no skin off my back mate.

 

[JOHNNIE WALKER]

So have you decided?